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Thread: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Oh yeah.. US never hit a wedding party just to kill some bad guy in Pakistan or bombed an area with a 500lb jdam to kill a few guys just "happens" to kill civilians.
    Why do we ignore the civilians killed in American wars? - Washington Post

    That's numbers with the "best" trained military in the world.

    And there is no evidence Syrian Government are directly aiming for children. What you fail to understand is there is another side that is fighting too who are even more poorly trained then the Syrian Army. That do fire randomly and are using indirect fire as well. They hide in and around civilian areas on purpose. That the Syrian Government can only fight the "enemy" where they are at and that's where they are at.

    Do you (or even the US) blame the IDF (Israel) when they bomb a few areas and civilians die knowing they are in the area? No, you say Israel has a right to defend itself. If I told you that the UK Government couldn't go after PIRA, INLA, or even RIRA or CIRA because they live amongst the civilians and you risk civilian deaths by rolling up in your Saracens.. you'd tell me I'd cut your legs out from under you. It's why the British Government never paid no mind to international pressures during "The Troubles" in their policies of conducted "policing". But you want to cut the legs out from Syria because they are fight terrorist groups. How feckless of you.
    Actually I have been very critical of Israel for a number of year especially over the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.

    Your comparing the Syrian civil war with the troubles in Northern Ireland is absurd and out of place, obviously their is a terrorist element to the Syrian rebels however they do not make up 100% of their fighting force and the whole struggle started as a grass roots peaceful protest which turned violent when the Assad regime cracked down on it. You post is confusing on many levels especially given the fact you are very critical of Americas military/ British Military, you accuse the rebels of having a terrorist agenda and you finish it with defending the Syrian government. So you openly support this violent dictatorships fight for power?
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Bollocks Andy! This had nothing to do with "lessons learned from Iraq" this was a case of a hung parliament to spineless to make the hard choice in a election year, this was political.
    I'd like to think there remain a few men in parliament with a sound mind, that have learned the folly of joining the US in another senseless conflict.

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    That is blatantly false on both counts.
    Oh ok can you show me some evidence that the American or British military have actively targeted civilians during Iraq and Afghan?
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I'd like to think there remain a few men in parliament with a sound mind, that have learned the folly of joining the US in another senseless conflict.
    You would like to think that! Fact is many Labour MP's didn't even bother to turn up, Cameron lost because his own party has lost confidence in him and are trying to distance themselves from him.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Oh ok can you show me some evidence that the American or British military have actively targeted civilians during Iraq and Afghan?
    Can you show some EVIDENCE that Al Assad has actively targeted civilians during his struggle to defend Syria from jihadist terrorists?

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Actually I have been very critical of Israel for a number of year especially over the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.

    Your comparing the Syrian civil war with the troubles in Northern Ireland is absurd and out of place, obviously their is a terrorist element to the Syrian rebels however they do not make up 100% of their fighting force and the whole struggle started as a grass roots peaceful protest which turned violent when the Assad regime cracked down on it. You post is confusing on many levels especially given the fact you are very critical of Americas military/ British Military, you accuse the rebels of having a terrorist agenda and you finish it with defending the Syrian government. So you openly support this violent dictatorships fight for power?
    Being critical and calling for intervention (over throw) are two different things. You've chosen to go one step further with Syria.

    I am not comparing, I am pointing out the hypocrisy. Both events are totally different and don't disagree on that account but the British didn't want anybody telling them what to do so why expect Syria to want that advice? But your are down right ignorant if you think the Syrian Free Army isn't a terrorist group, they hire foreigners to fight or train them. Hell, if your Muslim from the Balkans and a vet of those wars, you'll get $2,000 a day. Then they act like it (they use the same tactics as the PIRA did) and they've committed war crimes according to the UN. UN: Syrian Rebels Suspected of War Crimes

    If they were doing that towards the US or British Government they'd be called Terrorist.. but since they fulfill the purpose of poking Iran in the eye via Syria.. they are "Freedom" Fighters.

    Yet, FSA isn't the most effective and reliable rebel force in Syria. It's actually Al-Nusra Front. They are the go to force. It's the force the FSA sends to fight the Syrian Army and do the dirty work, then the FSA wipes their hands clean and says no, no, they aren't part of the FSA. These guys are a nasty and will do anything. They are all foreign.

    There is estimates that up to 50% of the fighters in Syria are foreign and that's growing every day. Turkey sees hundreds a week funnel into Syria.
    Last edited by austrianecon; 08-30-13 at 09:57 AM.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    "If they were doing that towards the US or British Government they'd be called Terrorist.. but since they fulfill the purpose of poking Iran in the eye via Syria.. they are "Freedom" Fighters."

    You are absolutely correct austria!

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Being critical and calling for intervention (over throw) are two different things. You've chosen to go one step further with Syria.

    I am not comparing, I am pointing out the hypocrisy. Both events are totally different and don't disagree on that account but the British didn't want anybody telling them what to do so why expect Syria to want that advice? But your are down right ignorant if you think the Syrian Free Army isn't a terrorist group, they hire foreigners to fight or train them. Hell, if your Muslim from the Balkans and a vet of those wars, you'll get $2,000 a day. Then they act like it (they use the same tactics as the PIRA did) and they've committed war crimes according to the UN. UN: Syrian Rebels Suspected of War Crimes

    If they were doing that towards the US or British Government they'd be called Terrorist.. but since they fulfill the purpose of poking Iran in the eye via Syria.. they are "Freedom" Fighters.

    Yet, FSA isn't the most effective and reliable rebel force in Syria. It's actually Al-Nusra Front. They are the go to force. It's the force the FSA sends to fight the Syrian Army and do the dirty work, then the FSA wipes their hands clean and says no, no, they aren't part of the FSA. These guys are a nasty and will do anything. They are all foreign.

    There is estimates that up to 50% of the fighters in Syria are foreign and that's growing every day. Turkey sees hundreds a week funnel into Syria.


    Britain didnt need anyone to tell them what to do because they were not dropping napalm or bombing catholic areas with our Tornadoes.
    There is always an excuse not to intervene in conflicts like these that is why we hesitated in the balkans, watched Rwanada happen in front our eyes and it is why we have sat back and watched the Syrian government use their far superior firepower to destroy its own people and its infastructure. The Syrian government is aided by Iran, Hezbolla, China and Russia and they heavily outgun the rebels. In despertaion have the rebels turned to more extremists groups to help fight this war maybe, but this shouldn't be used as a " get out of jail free card" by the West so we can continue to sit back and watch the continued bloodshed. If we back off and allow the continued use of chemical weapons in Syria then we are on a slippery slope.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Can you show some EVIDENCE that Al Assad has actively targeted civilians during his struggle to defend Syria from jihadist terrorists?
    yeh look at the estimated civillian deaths and read civillian eye witness accounts.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Can you show some EVIDENCE that Al Assad has actively targeted civilians during his struggle to defend Syria from jihadist terrorists?
    A UN report issued earlier in the year concluded that both parties to the sectarian conflict were ignoring their civilian-protection responsibilities.

    Excerpts:

    Government forces and affiliated militia committed the crimes against humanity of murder, torture, rape, enforced disappearance and other inhumane acts. War crimes and gross violations of international human rights and humanitarian law — including arbitrary arrest and detention, unlawful attack, attacking protected objects, and pillaging and destruction of property — were also committed.

    Anti-Government armed groups have committed war crimes, including murder, torture, hostage-taking and attacking protected objects. They continue to endanger the civilian population by positioning military objectives inside civilian areas. Where armed groups carried out bombings in predominantly civilian areas, it had the effect of spreading terror and amounted to the war crime of attacking civilians.


    http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/HRBod...C.22.59_en.pdf

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