Crowds gather for March on Washington 50th anniversary[W:101]

BWG said:

You're welcome...

Click to expand...

Objective Voice said:

I've followed this thread for the last two days now and it's apparant there remains a deep seeded anger, if not hatred, of Blacks in America by some. They mask their hatred or distain for Blacks behind such rhetoric as "Why are you folks still voting for Democrats who at first dispised you but throughout the party's history has done little to truly lift you up," but then oh, so "honorably" remind us of how life would have been...could have been...could be...if all we as a people did was vote Republican. After all, Lincoln did free the slaves...indirectly....by forcing the hands of Democratis and Whig slave owners to go to war to preserve an industry, if not a way of life, for free labor that was slavery and by its very nature forced survitude.

People who are strongly "opinionated" like P. Kersey, for example, will have you believe is crap like this...



I could go on and on highlighting and pointing out everything that's so wrong with his statement, but it wouldn't matter. To him, much was given unto a people and much was squandered by "those people". It's truly a shame that people who believe as he does will hide behind such twisted rhetorica facts all the while completely ignoring the abridgements of a people through state and local ordinances not to mention the ostrisizing that took places in all facets of national society that further complicated the attempts by Blacks to further themselves in property rights, voting rights, access to equal if not adequate education, employment opportunities, legal counsel if not the very inability for many Blacks event to this day to receive a fair trial. The ignorance is so staggering to me!! Just look at the commentary about the former Alabama Governor, George Wallace, being lifted up as if he were some patriant saint. Yet it was only a mere 50 years ago when White men of prominence who believed as he did, that Blacks in America would never accend to levels of social, economic, or political prominence as the White man. And, thus, they should "stay in their place". Or worse yet, "go back to where they came from". All the while completely ignoring this one simple fact:

HERE is where the vast majority of African Americans - Black Americans - Negros - came from, BORN TO THIS SOIL, same as many of you today.

I get so angry over the stupidity, the blind hatred steeped not in truth nor reality, but just plain mean spirited. Why? After all, despite much so-called "charity" being "given" to Blacks over the years in attempts to both make up for much of the injustices committed but also to try and uplift a people, people who harbor such hate use code words like "slums" and "ghettos" to further spread their hate. I would ask such people, "Have you ever gone to a surburban Black community," where there are actually one- and two-story brick or wood framed homes? Areas where Black people are very proud of their land and the property onwhich such stands? Not ever Black man lives in the projects. Not ever community Black people reside in are run town tennament slums or ghettos such as what you may envisions whenever you watch shows like "Good Times".

There are many Black people - and I include myself in this - who want better, who DO better, who want to see our fellow Blacks move up in all facets of social and economic levels. Constrary to what some may think, NO WHITE MAN HAS EVER GIVEN ME ANYTHING THAT I DIDN'T SO RICHLY DESERVE OR EARN. So, I take great offense to the tenor of such vile language as quoted above because it is so deeply rooted in hatred and bigotry all the while given subtifuge of "fact". BULL!!!

Get outside of your comfortable walls of White privilege and learn the truth about why there are still difficulties for Black Americans to climb that social ladder of equality. Yes, federal laws and federal programs may be directed at trying to "level the playing field" and give more and more Blacks opportunities to better themselves, but it's at the state and local levels where such inequitable efforts truly reside. And if you doubt me, I challenge you to review the history behind some of your city ordinances and/or state laws and provide proof that such GAVE rights to Blacks immediately after passage of the Civil Rights law WITHOUT taking some privilages away that White citizens freely enjoyed without having to overcome prejudicial obstacles, such as lawns can only be so high, trash could only be collected on specific days at specific times only to discover that trash collection routes were changed or equipment broke down and repairs were delayed. There are so many other such examples of inequility, bigotry or down right meaness I could quote, but it really wouldn't matter. For to some, "get over it" would be their only answer to difficult problems. Or how about this one: "stop playing the victim".

Frankly, I don't consider myself as ever having been victimized. But I have been denied certain rights based on the color of my skin and when such things did happen I fought back against it. But I've never complained here to you folks about my personal afflications on racial grounds. However, what I have tried to do was make people aware that racism - on both sides - hasn't gone away just yet. And it should. What I have tried to do is explain to people that despite winning some battles on racial equality on the federal level, local laws have attempted to hold a people back. And when those who did not approval of allowing Blacks a chance to succeed, to intergrat, to better themselves didn't find it proper to adhere to the law such men took the law into their own hands in many vile ways. There's no ignoring such facts.

America has a very dark history on race relations. The only way we AS A UNITED SOCIETY OF PEOPLE fix it is to stop trying to tear each other down laying blame, for example, as if YOUR TAX DOLLARS alone are being misused, abuse or otherwise wasted by me or others like me. You're not the only one paying into that pot called the U.S. Treasury. We all do. And like you, I dislike laziness, greed, misuse and abuse all the same. But you don't see me going around verbally basing every White person I encounter whose on Medicaid, WIC, TNIF, unemployment or who lives in a HUD house, receives an Obama-phone (a program that existed long before he came into office, BTW) or who had a mortgage loan they couldn't afford (it wasn't just a Black person w/a $90,000 home that caused the problem. Look at those White folks in Vegas or the rich senior citizen, entertainer or investor who purchased a home in FL then get back to me).

You guys really do need to check the premise of your hate.

Click to expand...

Objective Voice said:

Oh, and BTW, Lincoln wasn't a racist. He deplored slavery having been a victim of forced labor himself. However, he didn't believe that the Negro would ever ascend to the same levels of social acceptance or economic prosperity as Whites given the social conditions and cultural beliefs and/or behaviors of the time. That didn't make him a racist. It simply meant that he was keenly aware that the Black man would struggle to thrive in America in his view. So, he sought to have a colony developed in Africa - where most American slaves came from - considering that many prominate Negros were voicing a call to "have a place of their own" (initial calls were for Western territory in America). But such efforts never gained tractions. Why? Because most free slaves called America home and knew nothing about Africa other than the stories they here passed down through the generations or from other African slaves.

Lincoln was a Separatist. And for his time, I can certainly understand why he held such views. One more thing: Lincoln really didn't free the slaves. Negros fought and won their freedom. The Emancipation Proclimation only adhered to that grand bargain from Lincoln that said, (paraphrasing) "If you fight for freedom on my side and we win, you would have earned your right to be free."

Nuff Said

Click to expand...

Objective Voice said:

One more thing: Lincoln really didn't free the slaves. Negros fought and won their freedom. The Emancipation Proclimation only adhered to that grand bargain from Lincoln that said, (paraphrasing) "If you fight for freedom on my side and we win, you would have earned your right to be free."

Click to expand...

P. Kersey said:

King explained his own extramarital affairs as "a form of anxiety reduction".

Click to expand...

P. Kersey said:

He associated with many known communists, was an adulterer and a plagiarist.
If he REALLY wanted a colorblind society he would have advocated for people advancing solely based on their abilities...and no preferences for skin color...

from the revisionist source wiki..and you know how they hate having to say unflattering things (the truth) about negroes.



He was a confirmed adulterer; His friend Ralph Abernathy acknowledged he "had a weakness for women". King explained his own extramarital affairs as "a form of anxiety reduction".
The FBI even had audio tapes of him recorded during extramarital trysts.Judge John Lewis Smith, Jr. in 1977 ordered that all known copies of the recorded audiotapes and written transcripts resulting from the FBI's electronic surveillance of King between 1963 and 1968 to be held in the National Archives and sealed from public access until 2027.

The Bureau received authorization to proceed with wiretapping from Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy in the fall of 1963[188] and informed President John F. Kennedy, both of whom unsuccessfully tried to persuade King to dissociate himself from Stanley Levison, a New York lawyer who had been involved with Communist Party USA.[189][190] Although Robert Kennedy only gave written approval for limited wiretapping of King's phones "on a trial basis, for a month or so",[191] Hoover extended the clearance so his men were "unshackled" to look for evidence in any areas of King's life they deemed worthy.[192] The Bureau placed wiretaps on Levison's and King's home and office phones, and bugged King's rooms in hotels as he traveled across the country.[189][193] In 1967, Hoover listed the SCLC as a black nationalist hate group, with the instructions: "No opportunity should be missed to exploit through counterintelligence techniques the organizational and personal conflicts of the leaderships of the groups ... to insure the targeted group is disrupted, ridiculed, or discredited."


He had known, proven communist ties; among them close associates Hunter Pitts Odell and Stanley Levison....

The Southern Christian Leadership Conference, formed in 1957 and led by Dr. King, also had as its vice president Rev. Fred Shuttlesworth who was at the same time president of the Southern Conference Education Fund, an identified communist front.

King maintained correspondence with Carl Braden (communist, sentenced to 15 years’ imprisonment for sedition)
Anne Braden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also on the board of SCLC was Bayard Rustin (member of the Young Communist League)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayard_Rust…

In 1957, King addressed the Highlander Folk School in Monteagle, Tenn. which was originally called Commonwealth College until it was sited by the House Committee on un-American Activities as being a communist front
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealt…

In 1960, King hired Hunter Pitts O’Dell (member of the Communist Party U.S.A ), to work at SCLC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Pitt…

According to the St Louis Globe Democrat (Oct. 26, 1962) “A Communist has infiltrated the top administrative post in the Rev. Martin Luther King’s SCLC"
qfind.net




He plagiarized his doctoral thesis and other writings;

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s papers were donated by his wife Coretta Scott King to Stanford University's King Papers Project. During the late 1980s, as the papers were being organized and catalogued, the staff of the project discovered that King's doctoral dissertation at Boston University, titled A Comparison of the Conception of God in the Thinking of Paul Tillich and Henry Nelson Wieman, included large sections from a dissertation written by another student (Jack Boozer) three years earlier at Boston University.[1][2]

As Clayborne Carson, director of the King Papers Project at Stanford University, has written, "instances of textual appropriation can be seen in his earliest extant writings as well as his dissertation. The pattern is also noticeable in his speeches and sermons throughout his career."[3]

Boston University, where King received his Ph.D. in systematic theology, conducted an investigation that found he plagiarized major portions of his doctoral thesis from various other authors who wrote about the topic.[4][5]

According to civil rights historian Ralph E. Luker, who worked on the King Papers Project directing the research on King's early life, King's paper The Chief Characteristics and Doctrines of Mahayana Buddhism[6] was taken almost entirely from secondary sources.[7] He writes:

Moreover, the farther King went in his academic career, the more deeply ingrained the patterns of borrowing language without clear attribution became. Thus, the plagiarism in his dissertation seemed to be, by then, the product of his long-established practice.[7]

The incident was first reported in the December 3, 1989 edition of the Sunday Telegraph by Frank Johnson, titled "Martin Luther King—Was He a Plagiarist?" The incident was then reported in U.S. in the November 9, 1990 edition of the Wall Street Journal, under the title of "To Their Dismay, King Scholars Find a Troubling Pattern." Several other newspapers then followed with stories, including the Boston Globe and the New York Times. Numerous newspaper editorials defended King, saying he was still a great man regardless of his academic fraud.[citation needed]

Boston University decided not to revoke his doctorate, saying that although King acted improperly, his dissertation still "makes an intelligent contribution to scholarship." However, a letter is now attached to King's dissertation in the university library, noting that numerous passages were included without the appropriate quotations and citations of sources.[1][8][9]


....and his birth name was "Michael", not Martin Luther..His father just decided to change his sons name...I guess that's ok...whatever...

Click to expand...

Erod said:

He'd be viewed the same as Bill Cosby or Clarence Thomas are today. Those gentlemen are far more in alignment with Dr. King than the Jesse/Sharpton/Farrakhan posse of today.

Click to expand...

Juanita said:

No way--not in a million years could he be compared to the likes of a Clarence Thomas...

Click to expand...

Juanita said:

Your posts show such hatred. That is sad....As I have said before, nobody has said Dr. King was perfect... Many people were accused of being communist and just because he knew some means nothing.. Even communists were for civil rights.. Using the outdated and repugnant term of Negro has not escaped my attention either... What is important and what matters is the legacy that he left behind--nonviolent civil disobedience--which resulted in the Laws that we have today..

Click to expand...

Juanita said:

No way--not in a million years could he be compared to the likes of a Clarence Thomas... Bill Cosby has worked for civil rights in his own way for many years... No one has said that he would be in alignment with any of the civil rights so called activists of today...

Click to expand...

Juanita said:

P. Kersey, You just cannot clump a whole group of people into a box.

Click to expand...

Juanita said:

...Do the people of Appalachia compare to the. folks of Manhattan? No, you cannot compare them, just as you cannot compare folks in the ghetto with the folks in Brooklyn....

Click to expand...

Juanita said:

Many, many people get out of the ghettos and go forward in life... Many do not...That's life...

Click to expand...

Juanita said:

Education is the key... After school programs, art programs, music and sports programs...better schools..better teachers...NOT cutting back on education programs..

Click to expand...

P. Kersey said:

I don't.



Compare in what ways? They all have the same opportunities.
Lincoln was poorer than anyone in any ghetto..he essentially taught himself to read (with the limited help of his stepmother), he walked miles to borrow book..he ran for and won a seat in the Ill. legislature..he decided he wanted to be a lawyer and taught himself law using (if I remember right) the books of William Blackstone..he took and passed the bar exam.
He eventually ran for president and won...twice..all this with a total of about 18 months of "formal" education.
I don't want to hear excuses...




Correct.


We've poured trillions of dollars into public education and all the programs you just mentioned exist...is there any point where lack of personal responsibility can be blamed?

You called me "hateful" for posting wiki referenced material.
You read the article I posted by Bill Cosby?
I think he is spot on in his assessment.

Absolving black people from responsibility for their self-created dysfunction doesn't help them. It encourages more dysfunction.

An aside..you mentioned me using the word negro.
I'll just remind you that it is a valid choice on the u.s. census for "race". ..never mind the United Negro College Fund, for instance.


No other race..and especially white people have the amount of groups/organizations that specify race in their name or intent...
Are those groups racist?
Would any of these groups be "racist if you substituted the word "white" for "black" in the titles?
Think about it.
What about the Black Legislative Caucus?
Black Student's Union?
Black Miss America?
Black Entertainment Network?
Black Policemens Association?
Black Liberation and Afrikan Kulcha Empire
Black Male Community Empowerment Forum
Black Millionaires Mentoring Program
Black Voices for Peace
Black Women for Obama
Black Youth Creative Combating Oppression
Blackonomics
American Association for Affirmative Action (AAAA)
American Association of Black in Energy
Associated Black Charities
Association of Black Admission and Financial Aid Officers of the Ivy League and Sister Schools (ABAFAOILSS)
Association of Black American Ambassadors (ABAA)
Association of Black Foundation Executives (ABFE)
Association of Black Sociologist (ABS)
Association of Black Women in Higher Education
Black Agency Executives (BAE)
Black Awareness in Television (BAIT)
Black Caucus of the American Library Association
Black Filmmakers Foundation
Black Psychiatrists of America
Black Retail Action Group, Inc.
Black Women in Publishing
Black Women's Network
Blacks in Government
Coalition of Black Trade Unionists
National Alliance of Black School Educators
National Association of Black Accountants, Inc.
National Association of Black County Officials
National Association of Black Journalists
National Association of Black Social Workers, Inc.
National Association of Black-Owned Broadcasters
National Association of Blacks in Criminal Justice
National Black Caucus of Local Elected Officials
National Black Caucus of State Legislators
National Black Chambers of Commerce
National Black Child Development Institute
National Black Media Coalition
National Black Nurses Association, Inc.
National Black Police Association, Inc.
National Black Public Relations Society of America
National Black United Fund
National Conference of Black Mayors, Inc.
National Forum for Black Public Administrator

Click to expand...

Juanita said:

That long list of groups? I bet that none of the people in those organizations live in the ghetto.. So your whole hypotheses is wrong..

Click to expand...

P. Kersey said:

LMAO..that's the best you could come up with as a dodge? That's weak....and I gave you credit for being better than that.

Now I remember. You called me "hateful" for quoting wiki...and now this. That's ok.
TNB obviously.

If you really are that confused, try reading the post again. You'll see the list has nothing to do with living in the ghetto.
In fact the only time I mentioned the word was to point out that lincoln grew up poorer than any ghetto residents.. and look what he went on to do.
You fooled me briefly. I got it now, though.
See ya. Have a good evening.

Click to expand...

Grant said:

If you look to the right in this link you will see that the Democrats controlled the slave owning South and the Republicans controlled the North, Many Democrats living in the North, though not all, sided with Lincoln. United States presidential election, 1860 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Click to expand...

Juanita said:

Don't pretend that you didn't get my point..... You keep inferring that all black people are uneducated ghetto types and your long list of black organizations with employees shows that you are wrong...

Click to expand...

Juanita said:

No way--not in a million years could he be compared to the likes of a Clarence Thomas...

Click to expand...

CaptainCourtesy said:

Which completely supports what I said and refutes your position, entirely. Thank you.

Click to expand...

No problem. Let's see what you do with the feedback.

Click to expand...

Grant said:

OK, so you agree then that it was the Democrats who were the slave owners, who controlled the South, and made life Hell for Black people. That's why, you'll recall, the Democrats (or liberals) are still being accused of wanting to 'keep Black people on the plantation'.

Click to expand...

No idea what this means.

Click to expand...

Juanita said:

P. Kersey, You just cannot clump a whole group of people into a box....Do the people of Appalachia compare to the. folks of Manhattan? No, you cannot compare them, just as you cannot compare folks in the ghetto with the folks in Brooklyn.... Many, many people get out of the ghettos and go forward in life... Many do not...That's life... Education is the key... After school programs, art programs, music and sports programs...better schools..better teachers...NOT cutting back on education programs..

Click to expand...

apdst said:

Libbos do it all the time.

Click to expand...

P. Kersey said:

I made my point quite well.
What you're seeing there is evasion and deflection. No problem. I win.

Click to expand...

P. Kersey said:

I made my point quite well.
What you're seeing there is evasion and deflection. No problem. I win.

Click to expand...

Unitedwestand13 said:

You say you are posting the facts, but you have not yet explained what argument you are trying to make about African American culture.

Click to expand...