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Thread: Crowds gather for March on Washington 50th anniversary[W:101]

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    Re: Crowds gather for March on Washington 50th anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    States rights? Don't hesitate to jump in PK.
    Well, not just states rights but unfair tariffs on the south. (Morrill Tariff for example)
    I would jump in, but not in this thread as it will COMPLETELY derail this one.
    I stand by my statement. It wasn't about keeping/abolishing slavery, though.

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    Re: Crowds gather for March on Washington 50th anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by P. Kersey View Post
    Well, not just states rights but unfair tariffs on the south. (Morrill Tariff for example)
    I would jump in, but not in this thread as it will COMPLETELY derail this one.
    I stand by my statement. It wasn't about keeping/abolishing slavery, though.
    Certainly there were other factors but this debate from Captain Courtesy seems to be that the South wasn't controlled by the Democrats who were pro slavery and the Republicans of the North who were anti slavery. Instead he is more keen to assign them other names.

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    Re: Crowds gather for March on Washington 50th anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Certainly there were other factors but this debate from Captain Courtesy seems to be that the South wasn't controlled by the Democrats who were pro slavery and the Republicans of the North who were anti slavery. Instead he is more keen to assign them other names.
    I'm staying out of it until/unless it becomes about reasons/causes/purposes for the war and tactics involved.

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    Re: Crowds gather for March on Washington 50th anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by P. Kersey View Post
    I'd just like to say that the war wasn't begun or fought to preserve or end slavery.
    I am aware of that. I was just responding to Grant's line of discussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Crowds gather for March on Washington 50th anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Right. That is, as I have been saying, the issue. The Democrat controlled South, with their racist policies, fought the Republican controlled North, with their policies of human rights and freedoms. History is very clear on this.
    What history is clear about is that it was a North vs. South issue. Democrats in the North mostly supported the North. Republicans in the South mostly supported the South. Partisanship was irrelevant.

    It seems you are trying to squirm out of your previously held positions where it was 'sections' which were more important and the differences between Democrats and Republicans were not an issue.
    No. Re-read my comments. It was sarcasm, mocking what you had said previously. Notice I used nearly the exact same words against you.

    Yes, it seems i'll have to back and retrieve your quotes on the subject as your views on the subject tend to change.
    No, my position has not changed... though I'm sure you wanted it to since you wanted an easier position to argue against.


    No, it was not. It was a tradition among the Democrats but not the Republicans. And, as I mentioned, much of their philosophies continue to this day.
    No, it was a tradition in the South. And as I mentioned, today's conservatives are the Democrats of that era.

    We can discuss those issues later but, again, lets be clear that it was Democrats who opposed Black rights, not Republicans.
    No, it was the South who opposed black rights... then and in the '60's. And in the 60's, Republicans were, percentage-wise, more against black rights than Democrats.

    Again. It was Democrats vesrus Republicans. There is no denying that.
    Again, it was South vs. North. There is no denying that.

    No, it's not that complicated at all.
    Seems to be to you.

    No violation of human rights because of communism?? What a remarkable statement. It should be understood that Communism can only exist under a totalitarian system, and those countries who suffered under communist dictatorships were the worst places in the world in which to live.
    Read what you wrote and compare it what I wrote. This demonstrates that you don't WANT to understand. You just want to be partisan and ignore anything that does not adhere to your world view. There are no human rights violations because of communism, because no true communistic government has ever existed. I said that once... and I just said it again. Do I need to ask you to repeat it so that we can both be sure that you got it? All governments that attempted to be communistic in nature turned to totalitarianism immediately. It's human nature and large scale sociology/psychology.

    But when Ronald Regan, a Conservative, called Russia an 'Evil Empire', which it surely was, it was the liberals who protested the most. Anywhere people wanted to be free it was the liberals who protested that freedom, preferring that their ideologies trump basic human rights. Over 100,000,000 died and millions more had their lives ruined because of Communism but, as so often happens with the left, it wasn't the fault of the philosophy, only the methods of carrying it out. Well despite whatever flaws those Communist governments had at the time, the liberals certainly spoke up for them, freedoms and human rights be damned.
    This just demonstrates your ignorance on this issue brought on by your partisanship. No lives were ruined because of communism... because communism has never truly existed as a governmental state. Totalitarianism is what it has always turned into. Please read up on history.

    In fact liberals cannot define contemporary liberalism because it's all over the map. And course their take on Conservatives tends to based on what one person may have said in any particular time and that somehow defines all conservatives. No books on the subject need be read.
    Conservatives only define liberalism based on what they are afraid of. Anything that frightens them, such as progress, they assign to liberalism. They also assign all of the things that they hate about themselves... bias, being reactionary, and closed-mindedness for example. It's amusing as it is sad.

    It was a Democratic belief and still is. And i never said many, I said some, just as I said some Republicans may have supported slavery. But the divisions in the overall philosophies between the two parties were quite clear.
    It was a Southern belief. And it is currently a Republican belief.

    What 'historical revisionism'? The Democrats controlled the South at time and for over a hundred years after, while the Republicans controlled the North, where Black people were more free. That's not revision at all.
    Of course it is. The issue was South vs. North. Democrats and Republicans were irrelevant. You are making a very simplistic correlation not causation logical fallacy. Simple historical revisionism based on lack of logic.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Crowds gather for March on Washington 50th anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Captain Courtesy strikes again!
    Notice what you did, Grant... a classic partisan hack act. Because Mr.Nick post as a conservative, you didn't comment on his idiotic post, but instead, even with my sarcastic disclaimer, you commented on mine. Just shows what I've said all along. Your posts never seem to have any kind of objectivity. You look at things through black/white glasses: conservative good, liberal bad. All cases, no exceptions. That's why you keep making errors on the situation with the Civil War. If you actually assessed the situation, you'd understand that you were absolutely wrong... as has been shown. But you have been blinded by your belief system and your posts reflect this.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #257
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    Re: Crowds gather for March on Washington 50th anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Certainly there were other factors but this debate from Captain Courtesy seems to be that the South wasn't controlled by the Democrats who were pro slavery and the Republicans of the North who were anti slavery. Instead he is more keen to assign them other names.
    Correlation not causation. The issue was South vs. North, states rights vs. federal rights, taxation, AND slavery. Partisanship was irrelevant.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Crowds gather for March on Washington 50th anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    What history is clear about is that it was a North vs. South issue. Democrats in the North mostly supported the North. Republicans in the South mostly supported the South. Partisanship was irrelevant.
    Right. With Democrats controlling the South and Republicans controlling the North. That's been well established. The Rise and Fall of Jim Crow. Jim Crow Stories . Democratic Party | PBS
    No. Re-read my comments. It was sarcasm, mocking what you had said previously. Notice I used nearly the exact same words against you.
    Oh, I see. Leftist should avoid sarcasm, irony, etc. because it's too difficult to tell when they are being serious anyway.

    No, it was a tradition in the South. And as I mentioned, today's conservatives are the Democrats of that era.
    Yes, slavery and Jim Crow laws, supported by the Democrats, were a tradition in the South.

    No, it was the South who opposed black rights... then and in the '60's. And in the 60's, Republicans were, percentage-wise, more against black rights than Democrats.
    Yes, it was the Democratic South who opposed Black rights but you have offered no support for your contention that Republicans were against Black rights. In fact more Republicans supported the Civil Rights Act than Democrats.

    Again, it was South vs. North. There is no denying that.
    Then why did you earlier call them areas or sections?

    Read what you wrote and compare it what I wrote. This demonstrates that you don't WANT to understand. You just want to be partisan and ignore anything that does not adhere to your world view. There are no human rights violations because of communism, because no true communistic government has ever existed. I said that once... and I just said it again. Do I need to ask you to repeat it so that we can both be sure that you got it? All governments that attempted to be communistic in nature turned to totalitarianism immediately. It's human nature and large scale sociology/psychology.
    Yes, since the Cold War ended Leftists claim it was not 'real' Communism, just a perverted form of the real Communism, but which is truly wonderful when done correctly.. However if that was the case why did Liberals (aka Useful Idiots) march for Communists and rail against Conservatives, such as Ronald Reagan, who rightly called the USSR an "Evil Empire". Leftists should have supported him and said yes, the Russians, Cubans, etc. are ruining the good name of Communism with their mass killings, gulags, etc., but they didn't. Instead they attacked the Republican President of the day, and many other conservatives, for pointing out the obvious.

    This just demonstrates your ignorance on this issue brought on by your partisanship. No lives were ruined because of communism... because communism has never truly existed as a governmental state. Totalitarianism is what it has always turned into. Please read up on history.
    I've actually been in a Communist country and have seen the horrors with my own eyes, and witnessed the propaganda even though our eyes told the truth. You may not want to call it Communism because it contradicts your idea of what Communism should be but in fact Communists knew what was going on behind the Iron Curtain and ignored it because they had to cling to their dream. When millions of people call themselves Communists I'll go along with their self description, not yours. Nazis say that Hitler ruined 'real' Nazism, Mussolini ruined 'real' Fascism, and so on. A pox on all their houses. People who can't even manage their own lives feel still feel they have the intellectual capacity to control the lives of millions of others.

    Conservatives only define liberalism based on what they are afraid of. Anything that frightens them, such as progress, they assign to liberalism. They also assign all of the things that they hate about themselves... bias, being reactionary, and closed-mindedness for example. It's amusing as it is sad.
    Then lets see examples of Republicans holding back the rights of Black people and then compare them with what the 'progressive' Democrats did.

    It was a Southern belief. And it is currently a Republican belief.
    It was the central issue with Democrats, and not only in the South. Did you see how well the Democrat George Wallace did? How can there be a Republican belief and not a Democrat belief?

    Of course it is. The issue was South vs. North. Democrats and Republicans were irrelevant. You are making a very simplistic correlation not causation logical fallacy. Simple historical revisionism based on lack of logic.
    Party philosophies over an issue like slavery are irrelevant? What about in modern times? Are the philosophies of different political parties still irrelevant as well?

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    Re: Crowds gather for March on Washington 50th anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Correlation not causation. The issue was South vs. North, states rights vs. federal rights, taxation, AND slavery. Partisanship was irrelevant.
    We've already determined there were other causes apart from slavery, but how can partisanship be irrelevant for any of those issues?

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    Re: Crowds gather for March on Washington 50th anniversary

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Notice what you did, Grant... a classic partisan hack act. Because Mr.Nick post as a conservative, you didn't comment on his idiotic post, but instead, even with my sarcastic disclaimer, you commented on mine. Just shows what I've said all along. Your posts never seem to have any kind of objectivity. You look at things through black/white glasses: conservative good, liberal bad. All cases, no exceptions. That's why you keep making errors on the situation with the Civil War. If you actually assessed the situation, you'd understand that you were absolutely wrong... as has been shown. But you have been blinded by your belief system and your posts reflect this.
    Mr.Nick said
    I don't believe progressives know, or - better yet understand - the difference between a fact and a belief...
    That seems quite clear, otherwise how would you explain someone like Barrack Obama getting the Presidency, or the Nobel Prize? The Nobel Committee gave him the Peace Prize not because he contributed to peace anywhere in the world but they simply believed that BHO would somehow mysteriously manage it, so gave it to him for this reason only. There are many such examples of misguided and foolish 'progressive' policies.

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