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Thread: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    This is why as President you don't telegraph your moves so far in advance. It may have felt good to Obama to announce his line in the sand. I'm sure he felt it sounded tough while at the same time being so outlandish that he'd never be called to follow through. Unfortunately all he did was either give the militants the best path to getting US support, or given Assad the opportunity to show how little he actually respects the US President's warnings. Either way the announcement has had little effect on the conditions in Syria and has forced the administration into a few equally bad choices.

    An air campaign in Syria will be disastrous diplomatically. Syria is no doubt prepping for this by stationing mobile AA batteries in densely populated areas, turning the US campaign into one giant catch 22. I would be surprised if any such air campaign would result in fewer civilian deaths than the gas attacks that were used to justify it.

    That on top of the fact that Russia is ready to draw it's own line in the sand over Syria.

    Those canceled anti-ICBM batteries in Poland would be a real comfort right now....


    Mornin JM. For some reason.....they keep saying for low flying Tomahawks. That they think they can take out the multilayered protections of Assads Air Defense. What did they say 355 they think dead from the Chem attack? We will end up killing way more than that. This will be a bloody nightmare for us. Like you say. They will have people dedicated to go and putting themselves Right there by any facilities. All around it. We wont be able to get away with minor deaths.

    Not to mention the majors Like the S300 can take out Multiple Tomahawks. Which they already will have 24/7 mobile air defense. Circling around the S 300s.

    Syria’s Air-Defense Arsenal: The Russian Missiles Keeping Assad in Power

    While they agree that the S-300s are more accurate and have greater range than Assad’s current weapons systems, they say the Syrian leader is far from powerless without them. “We have seen over the past few years Russia supplying several different air-defense systems,” says Pieter Wezeman, senior researcher in the arms-transfer program of the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, which tracks weapons flows worldwide. “They [Syrian government] have really increased their capability. The missiles are both short and long range. If the S-300s do arrive, that would top it all off.” <<<<< Which we know they arrived.

    Among the missiles already in place are two regiments of S-200 surface-to-air missiles, which have a range of about 150 miles, “with no less than 240 missiles ready to be fired in a matter of minutes,” says Igor Sutyagin, a Russian military scientist and senior researcher at the London think tank, Royal United Services Institute. Sutyagin, who was jailed in Russia on charges of spying for the U.S. and freed as part of a spy-prisoner swap in 2010, says Assad “has a lot” of air-defense systems acquired from Russia, including between 12 and 20 short-range missile systems called Pantsyr-S, which have a range of about 7.5 miles and which can be mounted on vehicles. Those were delivered to Syria about a year ago, in what he believes is the latest confirmed arms shipment from Moscow. In addition, Assad has 1,200 air-defense guns and between 4,000 and 8,000 Strela portable shoulder-fired missiles. “That IS the GREAT stockpile of Russian air defense weaponry.

    Since Syrian rebels have no airplanes for Syrian forces to shoot down, Assad’s impressive air-defense arsenal has little bearing on the grueling war that has ravaged large parts of the country and killed an estimated 90,000 Syrians. But the antiaircraft weapons would be crucial if the U.N. voted to impose a no-fly zone over Syria or if Israel expands its sporadic strikes on Syria into a sustained bombing campaign. At that point, the S-300 missiles, which have a longer range and greater accuracy than Assad’s current weaponry, could inflict bigger losses and strike deep into Israel in retaliation — hence, Israel’s fury over the arms deal. With the S-300s in place, says Wezeman, “If Israel starts an air campaign, they would maybe lose a few more planes than they have until now. It is not a system which cannot be destroyed, but it would be a bigger campaign,” he says.

    Syria’s military arsenal presents the West with a far different calculus, in part explaining why no Western country has intervened militarily so far. While Gaddafi had huge stocks of weaponry, including Russian and Chinese antiaircraft missiles, much of it was discovered after Gaddafi was killed in October 2011, lying unused in warehouses. That suggested that the Libyan military did not know how to install the new weapon systems or had not had time to do so, according to military analysts. And Assad could also have learned some lessons from Gaddafi’s spectacular defeat. Gaddafi lacked long-range missiles capable of combating the high-altitude bombing strikes that NATO fighter jets conducted over Libya. “It’s against these types of operations that, for example, the S-300s or other SAMs [surface-to-air missiles] could be used with some efficiency,” Wezeman says. “In Libya the systems were old and out of date, and the Libyans did not really know how to operate them. It would be much more difficult for outsiders to intervene in Syria, in the way that took place in Libya.”.....snip~

    Syria's Air-Defense Arsenal: Russian Missiles Keeping Assad in Power | TIME.com

    Plus, this isn't even counting any Chinese Anti Air Missiles.
    Last edited by MMC; 08-28-13 at 12:06 PM.

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Anyone else got anything to say about France Rules of we will protect other populations? Everyone alright with France or another being able to say they could come into the US at anytime all to protect the people of a certain state if needed?

    That's whats going on here.

    Where has Syria attacked a US interest in this conflict?
    Morning MMC !!

    France needs to STFU and do it themselves!
    The last thing we need to do is waste time or treasure
    in the ME.

    I'm thinking let them take each other out & pickup the pieces.

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    This is probably the US/UK escape clause. Of course Russia and China vote it down. Then both the US and UK leaders can go on camera and talk about how lucky Syria is and how they were about to get an ass whoopin...

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by penn1954 View Post
    Morning MMC !!

    France needs to STFU and do it themselves!
    The last thing we need to do is waste time or treasure
    in the ME.

    I'm thinking let them take each other out & pickup the pieces.


    Mornin' Penn. Yeah.....I don't see the Neo Cons and the Neo Libs all to excited nows, huh? Wonder how that works out with Texas or NY?

    The French <<<<< You are violating your people Rights. We have the Right to come and Protect them. You will be punished.

    What is up with the West thinking they can just fire missiles on anyone. Its grounds for War. WTF do ya think we would do if someone fired missiles on us? Oh Wait.

    Uhm lets just stick with its grounds for War. Mmmkay.

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Mornin JM. For some reason.....they keep saying for low flying Tomahawks. That they think they can take out the multilayered protections of Assads Air Defense. What did they say 355 they think dead from the Chem attack? We will end up killing way more than that. This will be a bloody nightmare for us. Like you say. They will have people dedicated to go and putting themselves Right there by any facilities. All around it. We wont be able to get away with minor deaths.

    Not to mention the majors Like the S300 can take out Multiple Tomahawks. Which they already will have 24/7 mobile air defense. Circling around the S 300s.


    Morning MMC

    Yeah, the Syrian defense are very hardened and you won't be able to break them without a rather massive bombing campaign. I have no doubt that the US forces would untangle that knot, but not without a massive loss of life on the ground.

    Or, to put it another way: Either Assad wasn't the one using chemical weapons on Syrian civilians and the war is a farce, or Assad did use chemical weapons on civilians and therefor would therefor have no reservations in parking his S300s on school playgrounds and daring the US to bomb them.

    Also, the campaigns in Iraq are a good example of what to expect in a Syrian air campaign. To take out Iraqi air defenses the US air power had to target civilian infrastructure (phones, power) that were also being used by the military. To win an air campaign in Syria we will have to do the same. Destroy their infrastructure. The loss of life as a side effect to taking out the country's power grid alone will exceed that of the gas attacks.

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Morning MMC

    Yeah, the Syrian defense are very hardened and you won't be able to break them without a rather massive bombing campaign. I have no doubt that the US forces would untangle that knot, but not without a massive loss of life on the ground.

    Or, to put it another way: Either Assad wasn't the one using chemical weapons on Syrian civilians and the war is a farce, or Assad did use chemical weapons on civilians and therefor would therefor have no reservations in parking his S300s on school playgrounds and daring the US to bomb them.

    Also, the campaigns in Iraq are a good example of what to expect in a Syrian air campaign. To take out Iraqi air defenses the US air power had to target civilian infrastructure (phones, power) that were also being used by the military. To win an air campaign in Syria we will have to do the same. Destroy their infrastructure. The loss of life as a side effect to taking out the country's power grid alone will exceed that of the gas attacks.
    Myself, I was going with what Security Interest Assad caused to happen with us.....wherein he affected the National Security of the US? Or any Physical interest of the US?

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Myself, I was going with what Security Interest Assad caused to happen with us.....wherein he affected the National Security of the US? Or any Physical interest of the US?
    Israel....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Morning MMC

    Yeah, the Syrian defense are very hardened and you won't be able to break them without a rather massive bombing campaign. I have no doubt that the US forces would untangle that knot, but not without a massive loss of life on the ground.

    Or, to put it another way: Either Assad wasn't the one using chemical weapons on Syrian civilians and the war is a farce, or Assad did use chemical weapons on civilians and therefor would therefor have no reservations in parking his S300s on school playgrounds and daring the US to bomb them.

    Also, the campaigns in Iraq are a good example of what to expect in a Syrian air campaign. To take out Iraqi air defenses the US air power had to target civilian infrastructure (phones, power) that were also being used by the military. To win an air campaign in Syria we will have to do the same. Destroy their infrastructure. The loss of life as a side effect to taking out the country's power grid alone will exceed that of the gas attacks.
    Farce is the correct word. Just a little more info. USA is claiming evidence of communications eavesdropping by Israel indicting Assad. Russia is providing satellite photos of two rocket launches indicting the rebels. Do you think the UN will be able to figure this out?

    http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle36000.htm

    "
    According to the source, Russia’s ambassador in the UN Security Council, Vitaly Churkin, presented conclusive evidence – based on documents and Russian satellite images – of two rockets carrying toxic chemicals, fired from Douma, controlled by the Syrian “rebels”, and landing on East Ghouta. Hundreds of “rebels”, as well as civilians – including those children on the cover of Western corporate media papers – were killed. The evidence, says the Russian source, is conclusive. – Pepe Escobar

    August 27, 2013 "Information Clearing House - "williambowles " - Shattering news if indeed it’s true, that it was two missiles fired by rebels from a place called Douma in the suburbs of Damascus, which is indeed under rebel control, that did the damage. No wonder the Empire is in a panic to go to war if it gets out that it was actually the side its arming and supporting that caused such horrendous loss of life!

    The mad, panic-driven desire to destroy being exhibited by the USUK maybe the reason for the drive toward war as it will (hopefully) obscure and relegate to history what actually took place. The threat of war on Syria is some terrible psychopathic sideshow and well within the remit of the barbarians, who it is clear will stop at nothing to achieve their objectives. Unless stopped.

    If what Escobar reports (and another source, see below) is really true, then it means that the rebels actually did kill hundreds of people, including its own soldiers! Maybe even a thousand or more. No wonder the West doesn’t want it to be investigated! The UN inspection team has no remit to try and find out who is actually responsible, just whether some kind gas attack took place.

    All that guff about, ‘it’s too late, Assad has gotten rid of the evidence’ or, ‘you should have let us in earlier’, is just a smokescreen. What the West HAS to do, is try and cover it up, like they did to the thousands of Iraqi troops who were bulldozed in their trenches, alive, buried in sand.

    More Confirmation

    Below is a short promo of an interview with an Syrian activist confirming the report made by Pepe Escobar above. It’s on the Boiling Frogs website but you need a paid subscription to view the entire video, which is a bit of a drag. And I’d like to see the satellite images and any accompanying information. Why aren’t the Russians making a bigger play of the information they allegedly have? IT could stop this war thing in its tracks!"

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Great post Dave!!

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Israel....
    Damn JMac, That could be. But still this attack was in Assads border.

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