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Thread: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

  1. #171
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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    We have stealth planes. Spare me the "air defense".

    You claimed they have cruise missiles capable of taking out ships. Got any evidence besides a NYT article?

    Yeah Right ......that's why the Pawns go first. Any more excuses now little younger brutha.



    Report: Russia Sent Syria Super-Advanced S-300 Missiles

    A report Thursday said that Russia has supplied Syria with advanced S-300 missiles, and has sent advisers to help Syria run the system.

    Russian warships that have reached waters off Syria in recent days were carrying, among other things, Russian technical advisors who will help the Syrians set up an array of S-300 missiles Damascus has received in recent weeks, a report in the London-based Arabic language Al Quds-Al Arabi said Thursday. Citing sources in Syria and Russia, the paper said that Moscow sees a Western attack on Syria as a “red line” that it will not tolerate.

    Along with the missiles, the report says that Russia has installed advanced radar systems in all key Syrian military and industrial installations. The radar system also covers areas north and south of Syria, where it will be able to detect movement of troops or aircraft towards the Syrian border. The radar targets include much of Israel, as well as the Incirlik military base in Turkey, which is used by NATO.

    The S-300 system is regarded as one of the most potent anti-aircraft missile systems available. The system's radar is able to simultaneously track up to 100 targets while engaging up to 12. Deployment time for the S-300 is five minutes, and they have a very long life span, with no maintenance needed.....snip~

    Report: Russia Sent Syria Advanced S-300 Missiles - Defense/Security - News - Israel National News


    Still want to whine about some newsources? So much for Stealth.

  2. #172
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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    S-300s might bother Israel, but not the US. They can't stop stealth and they can't stop cruise missiles.

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    So... let's get this party started?
    lemme see the shock n awe baby
    hah all talk, no action
    Wait isn't this the same guy that won the Nobel Peace Prize?

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    S-300s might bother Israel, but not the US. They can't stop stealth and they can't stop cruise missiles.
    Nothing like playing like Obama and Hoping for the best.....little brutha.

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Nothing like playing like Obama and Hoping for the best.....little brutha.
    Nothing like inventing BS to scare people into your perspective.

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Nothing like inventing BS to scare people into your perspective.
    I didn't invent anything up.....Looks like those New Sources didn't give you any out huh?.....Moreover it would be basic strategy. I thought even you could have figured that one out little younger brutha.

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Obama has a role for the UN.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The United States, which periodically lectures to developing Third World nations about protecting human rights, rule of law, good governance and high moral standards, annually issuing ‘human rights practices’ of other countries, cannot restrain its own Special Operations forces stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan from indiscriminately killing innocent civilians.

    The worst is that U.S. authorities blatantly lie about these atrocities and war crimes by twisting the story to read that ‘insurgents’ were killed in a confrontation.

    This week, the United States, the foremost advocator to the Globe on human rights and rule of law while accusing other nations of committing genocide, war crimes and other atrocities, was exposed how U.S. Special Operations forces killed an innocent family in Afghanistan last February and another civilian massacre in Iraq in 2007.


    U.S. war crimes-atrocities in Iraq/Afghanistan exposed: Attempted cover-up foiled | Asian Tribune
    You raise some complex issues that extend well beyond the scope of this thread. I'll provide my personal opinion, but keep it brief.

    1. There is a difference between deliberately targeting civilian objectives and accidentally hitting them. That's one distinction and it's vital. One should be careful to avoid drawing false equivalences e.g., as were drawn during the intifada of terrorism unleashed against Israel. At the same time, it should be noted that there have been elements of U.S. forces that have engaged in what properly can be termed war crimes. One such suspect responsible for a massacre in Afghanistan was recently convicted in the U.S. That he was tried and convicted indicates that the U.S. is making efforts to deal with these problems. One can't say the same about every country.

    2. When carrying out military strikes, one has to be careful to ensure that the expected harm to civilians is not excessive relative to the military advantage expected to be attained. Where there is doubt or where an reasonable assessment can't be made, there should be no strike. Like any forecasting exercise and any act of human judgment, expectations can prove off the mark. Accidents can also occur. Other unforeseen scenarios can unfold.

    What I would like to see is much greater review of operations to compare outcomes with expectations. Based on the empirical evidence, if harm to civilians is consistently excessive in cases or greater than expectations, adjustments to the decision making process should be made. Adjustments could include limiting certain kinds of targets, seeking greater information prior to targeting, using different approaches to implement military operations in certain cases, and building in more realistic assumptions to guide decision making. The reviews need to occur on a continual basis.

    It is not illegitimate for foreign nations, partners, even the U.S. government to continually ask whether the U.S. could do better. With a robust review process, it probably is not unreasonable to expect improvements. Such improvements could only reduce the incidence of the issues in question, foster fewer unfavorable perceptions, and increase the likelihood of the U.S. meeting its larger goals.

    3. In the larger foreign policy framework, the U.S., like any country, can't be expected not to articulate its ideals, including those related to human rights. However, it should be careful not to be overbearing, as that can only result in others' exploiting its own shortcomings when they invariably arise. It is also unrealistic for one to expect every country to embrace a liberal, democratic system as exists in the U.S., Western Europe, parts of Asia, etc. Homegrown factors be they sectarian rivalries, historic experience (especially recent experience), institutional/legal frameworks, etc., create different structural environments, some of which are quite hostile to sustainable democratic governance.

    4. The U.S. should remain willing to cooperate with other states in areas of common interest, even those with different political systems than the U.S. Avoiding excessive idealism can allow the U.S. to find more of the common ground that exists and to achieve more successful foreign policy outcomes. In turn, that can amplify its diplomatic capacities and reduce the need for it to resort to hard power. As is the case with any other state, the U.S. needs to respect the critical interests of other states to the extent possible in pursuing realistic foreign policy goals. Occasionally, interests will diverge, and the U.S. cannot be expected to abandon its critical interests nor its strategic allies. Its the defense of those allies and interests that can make the use of force necessary. The sectarian conflict in Syria and recent civil war in Libya do not rise to that threshold. I believe the use of force in the former would be an error inconsistent with American interests. I believe the latter was a mistake and it has led to unintended consequences without materially benefiting American interests or strategic allies. In contrast, a deliberate attack on Jordan or Israel, as two examples, would rise to that level where, if necessary, the use of force would be justified.

    Anyway, those are my thoughts on what are really some complex issues, both in substance and perception.

  9. #179
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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    I didn't invent anything up.....Looks like those New Sources didn't give you any out huh?.....Moreover it would be basic strategy. I thought even you could have figured that one out little younger brutha.
    A NYT articles claims that, in addition to expecting the promise of supplying of S300s to be fulfilled, anti-ship missiles will be provided. Another article claims confirmation of S300 delivery. There is no confirmation of anti-ship missiles and if there was we would need to wonder about the effectiveness of them against a first-strike. The S300s mean nothing to the US. We are still the only country with invisible planes and we can certainly bring Assad to his knees virtually overnight.

    The real challenge will be the assembly of a transitional government, hopefully better than was managed in Iraq. Though, we couldn't really guess that excluding the Baath would leave nobody in the room, forcing us to go looking for common scoundrels to make up the transitional government.

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    No Don we intentionally incinerated whole cities in Germany & Japan with the express purpose of wiping out civilians.
    Basically if you don't want to kill people, then you shouldn't be at war, but then gee there'd be no reason at all to continue
    spending trillions of dollars feeding the Military/industrial complex?

    I still say we are not getting nearly the bang for our bucks we deserve.

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