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Thread: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

  1. #141
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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    We weren't talking about the UN going out Pete. We were talking about France leading the Way and always pushing to get involved into other countries business. Yet they cannot do it on their own. Its France that wants to go out and Punish People. So don't you think they should be responsible for funding themselves and to start doing things on their own. Without the US Supplies and Tech? Whats wrong with France paying their own way?
    It was the British who started the "punishing" comments and wish, not the French. But I am guessing you have no problem helping the British eh?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Bull**** on so many levels. Where were the US troops in Cyprus, most conflicts in Africa and so on.
    There was a war in Cyprus?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post

    No it was not. It was authorized by the UN, but not under the UN flag, because the US refuses to let its troops be commanded by anyone else but an American. Big difference. There were no blue helmets on the ground.
    OK but if it was sanctioned by the UN, and the coalition that fought the war comprised of 34 countries, what is the difference? The US still had nearly 80% of the troops in that war, even though it wasn't our problem. Europe barely lifted a finger.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    No, we all pay for the UN. The US being the biggest economy, pays the most yes. That is how it is.
    Good, so you admit the US pays the most for the UN, more than any other country.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Talk about being arrogant.. If the US withdrew from the UN, then yes it would be less relevant for the US, but it would be irrelevant. It would also make the US isolated and irrelevant.. but hey!
    No, the UN would become irrelevant. It would become a bunch of talking heads that nobody listens to, much like the EU of today only with a few third world countries added.

    I'm not being arrogant, I'm being realistic. The United States is the world's only superpower. It is the strongest nation to ever exist in the history of the world. We are comparatively stronger than the Roman Empire was at the height of its power, stronger than the British Empire, stronger than every single country in the entire continent of Europe combined.

    You're living in an era known as Pax Americana. Enjoy it.

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Every time the UN has ever used military force in the past 50 years it's been predominantly US forces with a few European troops sprinkled in to make the operation appear "international."
    I don't think that's a fair assessment. To expect smaller countries with smaller populations, smaller economies, and smaller armed forces to match U.S. capabilities is not realistic. For example, in the 1991 Persian Gulf War, the U.S. contributed approximately 600,000 troops. Saudi Arabia contributed close to 100,000. U.S. manpower commitments amounted to somewhere between 25%-30% of its armed forces at the time. Saudi Arabia's commitment exceeded 50% of its armed forces at the time.

    The U.S. has reliable partners who are willing to make sacrifices for common security interests, sometimes when U.S. interests in given conflicts loom larger than their own e.g., Afghanistan. The U.S. also does the same e.g., providing support to France in Mali, even as the French troops took on the big risks in that conflict. That mutually beneficial relationship should not be discounted. Indeed, if it were discounted at the policy level, the U.S. would ultimately wind up only able to create ad hoc coalitions based on interests at a given time rather than the more stable and enduring partnerships it currently enjoys. That would be a "lose-lose" proposition for all who currently benefit from the partnerships, militarily and non-militarily, including the U.S.

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Security Council authorization requires a simple majority with the requirement that none of the permanent members vote against the resolution. Legitimacy is entirely a different matter that Security Council authorization. Legitimacy does not necessarily depend on the UN, but Security Council support can be helpful in demonstrating legitimacy.

    Having said that, if there is not credible evidence as to who was responsible for the chemical weapons attack, the legitimacy of a military response will be questionable, as it would be plausible that the "wrong" party were being punished. Considering that, at least up to now, there is not the kind of evidence required to assess blame and the lack of U.S. interests involved in the sectarian conflict, I don't support military action against any faction in Syria. However, it appears that a military response has been agreed in principle by the U.S., UK, France, and perhaps some additional states, with perhaps only a few details to be worked out. The UN investigation appears to be irrelevant to that decision given some of the public commentary that has been reported.

    Not only does the UN investigation appear to be irrelevant, just like the rush to war in Iraq, it appears the inspectors will be advised to leave as bombing commences, just as Hans Blixx was to his solemn protestations. Telling the UN they are relevant when they agree with us, and marginalising them when they don't, is getting old. But not just to me. That is why two very powerful countries have been consistent in their vetoes on Syria, citing abuses in Iraq and Libya.

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    I'm interested in what credible and convincing evidence would be? What was presented on Iraq was credible and convincing at the time, there's nothing I can imagine being credible and convincing in todays "nothing is true" media on this issue.
    Are you joking? NOTHING Colin Powell presented was credible and convincing! There was no smoking gun, there was no threat of a mushroom cloud over an American city (Saddam hadn't the means) and Blix was given unprecedented access and found nothing and was told to leave, we're bombing anyway. Because, intelligence was fixed around policy!!

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Not only does the UN investigation appear to be irrelevant, just like the rush to war in Iraq, it appears the inspectors will be advised to leave as bombing commences, just as Hans Blixx was to his solemn protestations. Telling the UN they are relevant when they agree with us, and marginalising them when they don't, is getting old. But not just to me. That is why two very powerful countries have been consistent in their vetoes on Syria, citing abuses in Iraq and Libya.
    Given developments in France and the UK, it appears that the UN investigation will not be cut short. It will conclude on Saturday as scheduled with the findings made available to the Secretary-General and Security Council shortly afterward. If the UN team needs more time, I hope the team will get the time it needs.

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Given developments in France and the UK, it appears that the UN investigation will not be cut short. It will conclude on Saturday as scheduled with the findings made available to the Secretary-General and Security Council shortly afterward. If the UN team needs more time, I hope the team will get the time it needs.

    That we can agree on.


    This is what happened Sunday, which helped prompt my response:

    WASHINGTON - After initially insisting that Syria give United Nations investigators unimpeded access to the site of an alleged nerve gas attack, the administration of President Barack Obama reversed its position on Sunday and tried unsuccessfully to get the U.N. to call off its investigation.

    The administration’s reversal, which came within hours of the deal reached between Syria and the U.N., was reported by the Wall Street Journal Monday and effectively confirmed by a State Department spokesperson later that day.


    https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/08/28

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    It was the British who started the "punishing" comments and wish, not the French. But I am guessing you have no problem helping the British eh?
    How was it the British Pete.....when the French just like with Libya, officially recognized the Syria Rebels first before all others and was the Very First pushing for Armed Intervention?

    Can you explain how the French could Officially recognize AQ, the MB and Al Nusra? Don't you think the French should be Punished for making such a Universal and Colossal mistake in the world. Shouldn't the French have to suffer the error of their ways.

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    There was a war in Cyprus?



    OK but if it was sanctioned by the UN, and the coalition that fought the war comprised of 34 countries, what is the difference? The US still had nearly 80% of the troops in that war, even though it wasn't our problem. Europe barely lifted a finger.




    Good, so you admit the US pays the most for the UN, more than any other country.




    No, the UN would become irrelevant. It would become a bunch of talking heads that nobody listens to, much like the EU of today only with a few third world countries added.

    I'm not being arrogant, I'm being realistic. The United States is the world's only superpower. It is the strongest nation to ever exist in the history of the world. We are comparatively stronger than the Roman Empire was at the height of its power, stronger than the British Empire, stronger than every single country in the entire continent of Europe combined.

    You're living in an era known as Pax Americana. Enjoy it.
    yeh Turkey invaded Cyprus in the early 70's ( believe it was around there) and they occupied the northern side of the island which they still hold to this day.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: Syria crisis: UK to put forward UN resolution

    BBC News - Why Cameron buckled on Syria vote


    Great article about why Cameron buckled to US pressure and how he is now on Obama's timeline. Good read if you get a chance.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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