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Thread: Report shows how recession hit families [W:391, 502]

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    Re: Report shows how recession hit families [W:391, 502]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Sorry but you are already on record here giving two statements that you would look to government authority to establish ownership. The same government .... the same authority .... the same Constitution .... the same legal system .... that does that for you also has eminent domain as part of its property rights structure.
    Now you're going to argue your position AND my position?

    I would prefer that ownership records be maintained by people who don't initiate aggression against others.

    My consistent position is that the initiation of aggression is unethical and unjustified. There is no reason for a records of ownership to be maintained by an agency that initiates aggression when it can just as easily be done by an agency that operates in a peaceful manner.

    In fact, the sort of initiation of aggression that you and other statists support is precisely what I oppose.

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    Re: Report shows how recession hit families [W:391, 502]

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Now you're going to argue your position AND my position?
    Not at all. I merely reproduced your own answers and your own position that you look to governmental authority....... governmental power ....... Constitutional authority .... to determine your claim to own the land you claim you own. by the way - that would be the same government that presided over the aggression against the previous owners of the very land you claim to own who were stripped of their land so others could have it ending up in a long line with you as the beneficiary of what you would call aggression against innocents. And to compound that hypocrisy, you then look to the very government you condemn for legal authorization of your claim of ownership while decrying other aspects of property rights under the same law which protects you.

    My consistent position is that the initiation of aggression is unethical and unjustified.
    By CONSISTENT you mean a position you take in debate on sites like this. In real life, your actual position is not at all consistent with that as you willingly live on land taken by others by force .... in your parlance,. by aggression against innocents...... and you freely and willingly benefit from things like eminent domain - another thing you rant and rail against as aggression against innocents but enjoy the benefits of all the same.

    In reality Federalist, there is no CONSISTENCY in your professed position in this discussion and your real life position on such matters.

    Feel free to argue your position. I simply reserve the right to respectfully point out all the positions you have taken - both in writing and in actual real world actions.
    Last edited by haymarket; 09-03-13 at 07:49 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Report shows how recession hit families [W:391, 502]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Not at all. I merely reproduced your own answers and your own position that you look to governmental authority....... governmental power ....... Constitutional authority .... to determine your claim to own the land you claim you own. by the way - that would be the same government that presided over the aggression against the previous owners of the very land you claim to own who were stripped of their land so others could have it ending up in a long line with you as the beneficiary of what you would call aggression against innocents. And to compound that hypocrisy, you then look to the very government you condemn for legal authorization of your claim of ownership while decrying other aspects of property rights under the same law which protects you.
    I said that I know I own the land because the previous owner transferred the title to me. What this has to do with the government is beyond me, frankly.

    By CONSISTENT you mean a position you take in debate on sites like this. In real life, your actual position is not at all consistent with that as you willingly live on land taken by others by force .... in your parlance,. by aggression against innocents...... and you freely and willingly benefit from things like eminent domain - another thing you rant and rail against as aggression against innocents but enjoy the benefits of all the same.

    In reality Federalist, there is no CONSISTENCY in your professed position in this discussion and your real life position on such matters.

    Feel free to argue your position. I simply reserve the right to respectfully point out all the positions you have taken - both in writing and in actual real world actions.
    So your are disproving the argument against the government taking people's land by attacking me personally? Ad hom is a fallacy.

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    Re: Report shows how recession hit families [W:391, 502]

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryOldGuy View Post
    Stop taking half of every dollar the average middle class wage slave makes in taxes
    and we'll consider ya'll weened from the bottle next comes the training pants?
    I talked about how to get more of your money by removing healthcare from employment. I couldn't get Conservative to even tell me why he didn't want it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Report shows how recession hit families [W:391, 502]

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I said that I know I own the land because the previous owner transferred the title to me. What this has to do with the government is beyond me, frankly.



    So your are disproving the argument against the government taking people's land by attacking me personally? Ad hom is a fallacy.
    Title is part of a legal process which comes from the government.

    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/title

    Title
    In Property Law, a comprehensive term referring to the legal basis of the ownership of property, encompassing real and Personal Property and intangible and tangible interests therein; also a document serving as evidence of ownership of property, such as the certificate of title to a motor vehicle.

    In regard to legislation, the heading or preliminary part of a particular statute that designates the name by which that act is known.

    In the law of Trademarks, the name of an item that may be used exclusively by an individual for identification purposes to indicate the quality and origin of the item.

    In the law of property, title in its broadest sense refers to all rights that can be secured and enjoyed under the law. It is frequently synonymous with absolute ownership. Title to property ordinarily signifies an estate in fee simple, which means that the holder has full and absolute ownership. The term does not necessarily imply absolute ownership, however; it can also mean mere possession or the right thereof.
    Government is a part of the title process and the rights given to you by the title.

    You also said you own the land because the government recognizes that you do. Your acceptance of the government as authority for property rights is well established.

    Nobody is attacking you. We are only discussing your actions regarding what you feel is aggression that you freely participate in. You sling the accusations rather freely at others but you are like the finger pointing blame at another while three of your own point right back at you. Your own statements and actions say this very loudly.
    Last edited by haymarket; 09-03-13 at 11:31 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Report shows how recession hit families [W:391, 502]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Nobody is attacking you. We are only discussing your actions regarding what you feel is aggression that you freely participate in. You sling the accusations rather freely at others but you are like the finger pointing blame at another while three of your own point right back at you. Your own statements and actions say this very loudly.
    So you want to continue the practice of eminent domain. You want to continue the practice of the government initiating violence and taking land owned by others.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Anyone who has spend a modicum of time on this board knows that you believe that it is legitimate for the government to initiate aggression* against society.
    But yet you are impotent to present a single quote from me supporting that claim.
    My prediction was right from the very start.

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    Re: Report shows how recession hit families [W:391, 502]

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    So you want to continue the practice of eminent domain. You want to continue the practice of the government initiating violence and taking land owned by others.



    My prediction was right from the very start.
    A preacher how gets up in a church pulpit and rants and raves about sins of the flesh is no rarity and it is common. But one who does this while having their own brood if illegitimate children around town is a hypocrite who has no credibility on the issue. They say one thing while doing quite the opposite.

    A police officer who gives lectures to school kids about obeying the law is performing what appears to be a public service. But who takes bribes from criminals is a hypocrite who has no credibility on the issue. They too are a hypocrite saying one thing but doing the opposite.

    The single mother who sternly lectures her teen age daughter about chastity and virginity while bedding down with a different man each night in her home has no credibility on the issue. They also are a hypocrite saying one thing but doing the opposite.

    You accept the government and its authority to determine property rights. You freely use the benefits of the results of eminent domain. You willingly live on land which was taken from others in aggressive actions.

    All of this shows that there is a huge chasm between what you claim to believe in a debate and what you really believe in real life.

    Pointing a finger of accusation at me for supporting the same thing that you support and benefit from every day does not serve well your ideology.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Report shows how recession hit families [W:391, 502]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You accept the government and its authority to determine property rights. You freely use the benefits of the results of eminent domain. You willingly live on land which was taken from others in aggressive actions.

    All of this shows that there is a huge chasm between what you claim to believe in a debate and what you really believe in real life.

    Pointing a finger of accusation at me for supporting the same thing that you support and benefit from every day does not serve well your ideology.
    For some reason you seem to be under the impression that I am against all government. Not true at all. I only oppose government initiation of aggression. It is particular policies to which I object, not the idea of government itself.

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    Re: Report shows how recession hit families [W:391, 502]

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    For some reason you seem to be under the impression that I am against all government. Not true at all. I only oppose government initiation of aggression. It is particular policies to which I object, not the idea of government itself.
    Good luck on convincing the majority of Americans to accept your ideas. It is beliefs and positions just like this which translate into the Libertarian Party not even being able to get a tiny one percent of the popular vote for president.

    You say here you are not against government - but yet your own admission is that no functioning government on the entire face of the earth follows the ideology you would have it follow.

    Your professed views and practical reality never really seem to meet in the same real world we live in.
    Last edited by haymarket; 09-04-13 at 08:08 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Report shows how recession hit families [W:391, 502]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Good luck on convincing the majority of Americans to accept your ideas. It is beliefs and positions just like this which translate into the Libertarian Party not even being able to get a tiny one percent of the popular vote for president.

    You say here you are not against government - but yet your own admission is that no functioning government on the entire face of the earth follows the ideology you would have it follow.

    Your professed views and practical reality never really seem to meet in the same real world we live in.
    And that is how you expect to justify government initiation of aggression? You haven't even put forth an argument that explains why anyone should accept your position.

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