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Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged Chemi

Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

shrubnose said:
Now, that's a good idea and it could happen.
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A good idea? There are no innocents there in your mind I suppose!
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

Montecresto said:
A good idea? There are no innocents there in your mind I suppose!
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I think that the question should be do we trust Obama as a CIC in the event that this now regional conflict turns global with our entry? I don't think that Obama has the balls to be in charge of the 8th grade flag squad much less the US military in a World War.
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

j-mac said:
I think that the question should be do we trust Obama as a CIC in the event that this now regional conflict turns global with our entry? I don't think that Obama has the balls to be in charge of the 8th grade flag squad much less the US military in a World War.
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Obama's qualifications to launch another illegal attack, or abuse another UN resolution are irrelevant.
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

Montecresto said:
And your vision for Russia and China?
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Montecresto said:
No Wise man would speak such insanity. You taking personal responsibility for another hundred thousand dead civilians to our bombing. What is the matter with people.
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Why do you think it would result in a hundred thousand civilian deaths?

VanceMack said:
Which side?
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The regime obviously.

obvious Child said:
Look who made those comments. Wiseone, you know perfectly why they fabricated an outright lie and then attributed it to you. Some of us though, do realize that certain members here are anything but honest. You never said anything about indiscriminate bombings.


You lost me at special ops. We should put exactly zero boots on the ground. All operations can be conducted from ships or from regional bases flying drones. We should risk exactly zero lives in this operation.
So let's start launching cruise missiles at military bases as well as doing the whole Kosovo metal scraps into power plants and transformer stations griefing to disrupt all power. Both can be done without risking any NATO lives.
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Well I understand what you mean but I think these rebels, unlike those in Libya, need advisors on the ground to help them establish a true working government they haven't really come together the way they did in Libya and they need to achieve that if they are going to "win the peace" after the war.

Also even just conducting flights over Syria is risking lives, you can't establish a no-fly zone without your own aircraft in the area. A missile may be able to blow up a building hundreds of miles away, but you'll never shoot down an aircraft from that far off.
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

Wiseone said:
Why do you think it would result in a hundred thousand civilian deaths?



The regime obviously.



Well I understand what you mean but I think these rebels, unlike those in Libya, need advisors on the ground to help them establish a true working government they haven't really come together the way they did in Libya and they need to achieve that if they are going to "win the peace" after the war.

Also even just conducting flights over Syria is risking lives, you can't establish a no-fly zone without your own aircraft in the area. A missile may be able to blow up a building hundreds of miles away, but you'll never shoot down an aircraft from that far off.
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Do we know they even did it? Where they the ones responsible for gas use in March? And if we choose sides against 'the regime' arent we siding with the same people that are murdering civilians for the crime of not agreeing with them or being Christian? Is there a side of 'angels' here? ANd what DOES that response look like? Since we are committed to act and Biden has said it is an absolute certain it is Assad that is the guilty party do we put boots on the ground or launch a few hundred cruise missiles blow up a few empt buildings...cuz that'll show em...
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

Wiseone said:
Ya I know that many of these rebel groups are Islamist in nature, there's no denying the sensitivity of this situation where a bad move can lead to a bad outcome or we experience a Libya-like situation where a moderate and friendly government is in power but has trouble fully controlling its territory. But the outcomes from doing nothing are in my opinion far far far worse, war hardens people, it makes people less tolerate, more extreme, more acceptable of unwanted behavior and the longer this conflict goes on the more extreme the rebel Islamist groups will get and the more extreme the Assad government is going to get.
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Why is this any of our business?
Where do we intervene next?

Colombia?
Somalia?
Yemen?
Pakistan?
Sudan?
Phillippines?
Korea?
Kashmir?
Burma?
Nigeria?
Peru?
Uganda?
Angola?
Lebanon?
The Congo?

etc...etc... All these places are in conflict/civil war..and some of them involve "a moderate and friendly government (that) is in power but has trouble fully controlling its territory" as you say.
Why not send troops/bomb all these places?

You really think we can stop human beings from fighting worldwide and peace and harmony will occur and everyone will get free lollypops and balloons and unicorn rides and suddenly see the error of their ways and thank us for showing them?
Are you above the age of 19?
No, seriously..Be realistic.


Wiseone said:
We need to get in there, back the moderate groups, give them advice and assistance, help them build the workings of a post-war government that can provide for its people and naturally attract people away from the extremist groups who will not be able to provide the functions of government as well. And we need to make sure we can provide more, assist better, and back folks that can offer a better solution than the extremist groups or the other groups, some of which are the same, that other middle eastern governments are backing.
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Meaningless, idealistic, unworkable platitudes.

Various factions in the ME have been fighting for 5000 years or more and leaders of various nations have intervened for 5000 years..nothing has changed and nothing will.

Wiseone said:
The worst thing that can be done, and what I fear is being done, is taking action that only ultimately serves to extend the conflict, assistance that we are giving is not enough to decisively change the outcome at this point, that only serves to protract the conflict and drive more and more people to extremist positions or extremists groups.
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Anything we do will "extend the conflict", whichever side we support or arm. There will always be conflict in the ME and the more we interfere, the more enemies WE make and the more bitter the "losers" that we DIDN'T back will become.

This S**t is none of our business and intervening won't solve a single thing...as history demonstrates again and again...and again.
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

We made the Middle East our business. Now we are stuck.
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

VanceMack said:
Do we know they even did it? Where they the ones responsible for gas use in March? And if we choose sides against 'the regime' arent we siding with the same people that are murdering civilians for the crime of not agreeing with them or being Christian? Is there a side of 'angels' here? ANd what DOES that response look like? Since we are committed to act and Biden has said it is an absolute certain it is Assad that is the guilty party do we put boots on the ground or launch a few hundred cruise missiles blow up a few empt buildings...cuz that'll show em...
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Its more than just the use of chemical waepons, its about not letting the situation grow any more out of control, and not letting radicals take over power on both sides even more than they already have. Also I personally don't hold people responsible for the crimes of others, if some of these rebel groups have murdered civilians for not supporting them or for being Christian than obviously those are not the groups we want to support. But I'm not going to lump everyone together and pretend all the rebel groups are the same, I made it pretty clear that we should support the moderates to marginalize those kind of people.

Its not about "showing them" is about removing them from power and replacing them with a friendlier more moderate government and putting an end to this conflict which is only growing more religious by the day and its fighters only more extreme in their views as it goes on.
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

Wiseone said:
Its more than just the use of chemical waepons, its about not letting the situation grow any more out of control, and not letting radicals take over power on both sides even more than they already have. Also I personally don't hold people responsible for the crimes of others, if some of these rebel groups have murdered civilians for not supporting them or for being Christian than obviously those are not the groups we want to support. But I'm not going to lump everyone together and pretend all the rebel groups are the same, I made it pretty clear that we should support the moderates to marginalize those kind of people.

Its not about "showing them" is about removing them from power and replacing them with a friendlier more moderate government and putting an end to this conflict which is only growing more religious by the day and its fighters only more extreme in their views as it goes on.
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Just who are these "moderates" that can put an end to this conflict and please tell me they have not already aligned themselves with terror groups?

Oh that's right, Obama blew his chance at that by doing nothing for so long. Never mind.
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

TiredOfLife said:
We made the Middle East our business. Now we are stuck.
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Companies made oil our business for cheap products. The Middle East has oil which goes to India and China who make us cheap stuff. If they have higher costs, then we have higher costs. We made cheap goods our business. My $0.02.
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

Wiseone said:
Its more than just the use of chemical waepons, its about not letting the situation grow any more out of control, and not letting radicals take over power on both sides even more than they already have. Also I personally don't hold people responsible for the crimes of others, if some of these rebel groups have murdered civilians for not supporting them or for being Christian than obviously those are not the groups we want to support. But I'm not going to lump everyone together and pretend all the rebel groups are the same, I made it pretty clear that we should support the moderates to marginalize those kind of people.

Its not about "showing them" is about removing them from power and replacing them with a friendlier more moderate government and putting an end to this conflict which is only growing more religious by the day and its fighters only more extreme in their views as it goes on.
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The rebel groups are infested with Islamists and al Qaida, there is no separating them out. What part of that is confusing. We have been arming and training terrorists in an attempt to overthrow the Assad government. And this is because China and Russia have blocked all attempts to overthrow the Assad government overtly!
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

ItAin'tFree said:
Just who are these "moderates" that can put an end to this conflict and please tell me they have not already aligned themselves with terror groups?

Oh that's right, Obama blew his chance at that by doing nothing for so long. Never mind.
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How many times does one need to repeat. Obama did what you are suppose to do. Several times he sent Hillary Clinton to the UN to ask for sanctions and authorisation for use of force. EVERY SINGLE TIME we were told NO! Are you advocating he ignore international law again, and bypass our congress?
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

Blue_State said:
Companies made oil our business for cheap products. The Middle East has oil which goes to India and China who make us cheap stuff. If they have higher costs, then we have higher costs. We made cheap goods our business. My $0.02.
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We have ample oil on this continent and the ability to be 100% energy independent. The government doesn't WANT that, though...so who controls the government, the people? Seriously?
LMAO...no..international corporations and banks.

Surely you don't believe we can vote our way out of this mess?
If that were really so, they wouldn't ALLOW us to vote. It would be too dangerous to them.
They like things just as they are.
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

Wiseone said:
Its more than just the use of chemical waepons, its about not letting the situation grow any more out of control, and not letting radicals take over power on both sides even more than they already have. Also I personally don't hold people responsible for the crimes of others, if some of these rebel groups have murdered civilians for not supporting them or for being Christian than obviously those are not the groups we want to support. But I'm not going to lump everyone together and pretend all the rebel groups are the same, I made it pretty clear that we should support the moderates to marginalize those kind of people.

Its not about "showing them" is about removing them from power and replacing them with a friendlier more moderate government and putting an end to this conflict which is only growing more religious by the day and its fighters only more extreme in their views as it goes on.
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"I want to make clear that the options that we are considering are not about regime change," White House spokesman Jay Carney said Tuesday.
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

P. Kersey said:
We have ample oil on this continent and the ability to be 100% energy independent. The government doesn't WANT that, though...so who controls the government, the people? Seriously?
LMAO...no..international corporations and banks.

Surely you don't believe we can vote our way out of this mess?
If that were really so, they wouldn't ALLOW us to vote. It would be too dangerous to them.
They like things just as they are.
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I think you missed what I am saying. Middle East Oil does not come to America. It is mostly exported to the two fastest growing nations in the world. India and China. Their growth and demand for fuel is why we fight in the Middle East. Honestly, if human compassion is our reason for invading countries in the Middle East, then why haven't we cleaned up our own hemisphere?

At no time did I say we needed the oil.

I said companies are the reason we are fighting. I am really not sure where you got voting and allow us to vote. Pretty much I think you went off the handle at the end.
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

VanceMack said:
"I want to make clear that the options that we are considering are not about regime change," White House spokesman Jay Carney said Tuesday.
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We just don't want that guy in power.
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

VanceMack said:
"I want to make clear that the options that we are considering are not about regime change," White House spokesman Jay Carney said Tuesday.
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Well there it is, if the White House said it....................!
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

Montecresto said:
Obama's qualifications to launch another illegal attack, or abuse another UN resolution are irrelevant.
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No, they really aren't...Look, Obama doesn't have the fortitude to do what is necessary in Syria, nor does he, or his ideology indicate that he would support the right side in the conflict. What do we gain by getting involved? Syria was not a friend before this uprising, nor will they be after.

If all we are going to do is launch a barrage of Tomahawks at Syria, and not take out their air capabilities, or damage Assad in any way to continue to kill his own people, then we might as well send a strongly worded letter, we'd be laughed at just as much. I just don't see an upside in advocating this.

If you are truly upset by what you term as "illegal" intervention by our nations leadership, then why say we should do it? We have to start somewhere saying NO MORE!
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

Blue_State said:
I think you missed what I am saying. Middle East Oil does not come to America. It is mostly exported to the two fastest growing nations in the world. India and China. Their growth and demand for fuel is why we fight in the Middle East. Honestly, if human compassion is our reason for invading countries in the Middle East, then why haven't we cleaned up our own hemisphere?

At no time did I say we needed the oil.

I said companies are the reason we are fighting. I am really not sure where you got voting and allow us to vote. Pretty much I think you went off the handle at the end.
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Oh..maybe I did miss the point, then...Sorry. My error.

Middle eastern troubles influence the price of oil negatively, however..which in turn ripples out and affects us and our economy. I maintain we could be 100% energy independent..if we wanted to be.
My reference to voting our way out of our troubles is just to support my premise that international corporations and banks run the show here and "voting" in a "new" administration, etc...won't change a thing.
I think it's true but you might be right. It is off on a tangent from the discussion. I'll try to focus better. Thanks!
 
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Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

VanceMack said:
"I want to make clear that the options that we are considering are not about regime change," White House spokesman Jay Carney said Tuesday.
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O damn I guess that just throws my argument out the window because I'm a White House staffer or something?

Hey check it out man, my opinion is not pre-determined by anyone else's, I'm not beholden to statements made by the President or the White House so this really has next to nothing to do with what I said. In other words, I don't care what Jay Carney said and what he does say has no effect on me at all.
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

j-mac said:
No, they really aren't...Look, Obama doesn't have the fortitude to do what is necessary in Syria, nor does he, or his ideology indicate that he would support the right side in the conflict. What do we gain by getting involved? Syria was not a friend before this uprising, nor will they be after.

If all we are going to do is launch a barrage of Tomahawks at Syria, and not take out their air capabilities, or damage Assad in any way to continue to kill his own people, then we might as well send a strongly worded letter, we'd be laughed at just as much. I just don't see an upside in advocating this.

If you are truly upset by what you term as "illegal" intervention by our nations leadership, then why say we should do it? We have to start somewhere saying NO MORE!
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I'm saying that sense we have no business attacking another country that hasn't attacked us (check the constitution in case you didn't realise that that is illegal), Obama's qualifications to commit such a crime are irrelevant.
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

Wiseone said:
O damn I guess that just throws my argument out the window because I'm a White House staffer or something?

Hey check it out man, my opinion is not pre-determined by anyone else's, I'm not beholden to statements made by the President or the White House so this really has next to nothing to do with what I said. In other words, I don't care what Jay Carney said and what he does say has no effect on me at all.
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If your support of action is based on your third point, I was merely pointing out that the administration is NOT expressing an intent or desire to remove anyone. So, what did they call it...a "brief and limited" response...probably something like blowing up a few warehouses. That will do it.

As for the 'moderates' you wish to support..are they anything like the moderates in Egypt?
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

VanceMack said:
If your support of action is based on your third point, I was merely pointing out that the administration is NOT expressing an intent or desire to remove anyone. So, what did they call it...a "brief and limited" response...probably something like blowing up a few warehouses. That will do it.

As for the 'moderates' you wish to support..are they anything like the moderates in Egypt?
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Vance, regime change in Syria has been a long standing goal of US foreign policy, PLEASE tell us your not buying the propaganda coming out of the White House on this.
 
Re: Senior Administration Official: ‘Very Little Doubt’ Assad Regime Behind Alleged C

Montecresto said:
Vance, regime change in Syria has been a long standing goal of US foreign policy, PLEASE tell us your not buying the propaganda coming out of the White House on this.
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That would mean they are LYING... :naughty
 
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