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Thread: NYPD Stop and Frisk Ruled Unconstitutional

  1. #61
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    Re: NYPD Stop and Frisk Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    I pretty much agree with everything else you've said.
    In the end we probably actually agree on almost all of this but just differ in presentation.
    Thank your brother.

    I heard a great quote the other day from David Milch, former writer for NYPD Blue:
    "Cops are asked to shield society from certain of its most fundamental contradictions".

    I thought that was so profound, so succinct and almost elegant.

    The stop and frisk issue is a perfect example - Society must decide between liberty and safety but lacks the courage to make the decision. So they ask the police to step into that void and suffer their ire no matter how they carry out their task. The police have only two options here - be blamed for crime increasing or be blamed for declaring open season on black youth. There is almost no gray area at all because society at large can't make the decision.
    The painful fact is that Barack Obama is the president that Nixon always wanted to be. - Jon Turley
    If you have to exaggerate my point to make me wrong you've already given up.
    DON'T KILL BEES.

  2. #62
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    Re: NYPD Stop and Frisk Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooks View Post
    1. Then the judge and I are in agreement in that regard.
    There's another issue that causes problems such as these. An NYC police officer feels negativity from the public, the media, the city and the hierarchy of the department. The typical PO plans on what they call "20 and out". As a result, the senior guy in a typical squad may have six years on the job (and is probably already burned out).
    Throughout the years, when the city acquiesced to public's anti-police sentiment, they planted the seeds for this type of scandal. Seemingly irrelevant things have larger ramifications down the road.

    2. The mayor and the city really blew the PR battle out of the gate. The procedure is not "stop and frisk". It's "stop and question and, if necessary, frisk".
    A legal stop doesn't have to involve a pat down unless the PO can articulate fear or a specific threat. But the lazy city administration felt it necessary to speak down to goat level and say stop and frisk. In a way they kind of deserve the bad publicity for condescending in this way.

    3. Actually, we don't have to suspect the numbers at all since you've provided them.
    In 2012 there were 685,724 stops done by 35,000 cops. That's 19.5 stops per cop or about 1.5 stops per cop per month.
    You're right though, it's not evenly divided since not all cops are doing stops.
    And for some strange reason, most of the stops are in high crime precincts. Imagine.
    Except in practice that articulated fear or suspicion is "it's a brown skinned person in a neighborhood where brown skinned people sometimes commit crimes."
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  3. #63
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    Re: NYPD Stop and Frisk Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Except in practice that articulated fear or suspicion is "it's a brown skinned person in a neighborhood where brown skinned people sometimes commit crimes."
    Actually no. The articulated fear necessary to make the stop legal, if it should go to court, must be for a hidden weapon or object that could cause the officer harm. Things such as a bulge in the pants or waistline or small of the back or at the ankle or a furtive action just before contact, etc....

    The law is very specific on this and your not knowing is the fault of the city, the media, activists and others who should have better explained this issue during the time it was in the news.
    The painful fact is that Barack Obama is the president that Nixon always wanted to be. - Jon Turley
    If you have to exaggerate my point to make me wrong you've already given up.
    DON'T KILL BEES.

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