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Thread: NYPD Stop and Frisk Ruled Unconstitutional

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    Re: NYPD Stop and Frisk Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I hope it doesn't. Nothing like the Feds jacking you off at the airport, and the good thing about it, it's free of charge. LOL.
    It seems you were one of the lucky ones. All i ever got was foreplay.

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    Re: NYPD Stop and Frisk Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    1. The point simply stated is that the police justifications for stops in many cases do not meet the reasonable suspicion standard required under Terry v Ohio.
    2. Further the point is that the stops disproportionately single out minorities.
    3. In short the judge found that the NYPD stop and frisk policy (yes I know it is not a law) violates the 4th Amendment of the US Constitution and that the management f the NYPD and government of NYC willfully ignored those violations.
    1. True. But those types of encounters have always been unjustified. It wasn't necessary for a judge to reinforce what the Constitution and the Criminal Procedure Law have already codified.

    2. Actually, the percentage of minorities "stopped" is lower than the percentage of the crime that is committed by minorities. Mayor Bloomberg clumsily addressed this point when he said that too many white people were being stopped. Mathematically he was correct, but this is why leaders have spokespeople.

    3. I still don't understand how the word policy is used in this case - it's not just you, the media and even the mayor's office characterizes it this way.
    It's like saying that the city has a "policy" that drivers who run red lights will be ticketed. It's already allowed and even expected under the proper circumstances.
    This is why I say that the whole notion of a "hearing" to look into this was just silly.
    The painful fact is that Barack Obama is the president that Nixon always wanted to be. - Jon Turley
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    Re: NYPD Stop and Frisk Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It seems you were one of the lucky ones. All i ever got was foreplay.
    Yea, I go to the airport every day....... And I don't fly either. LOL.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

  4. #44
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    NYPD Stop and Frisk Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooks View Post
    1. True. But those types of encounters have always been unjustified. It wasn't necessary for a judge to reinforce what the Constitution and the Criminal Procedure Law have already codified.

    2. Actually, the percentage of minorities "stopped" is lower than the percentage of the crime that is committed by minorities. Mayor Bloomberg clumsily addressed this point when he said that too many white people were being stopped. Mathematically he was correct, but this is why leaders have spokespeople.

    3. I still don't understand how the word policy is used in this case - it's not just you, the media and even the mayor's office characterizes it this way.
    It's like saying that the city has a "policy" that drivers who run red lights will be ticketed. It's already allowed and even expected under the proper circumstances.
    This is why I say that the whole notion of a "hearing" to look into this was just silly.
    I think the issue here is that the NYPD brass has apparently ordered officers to find any reason to stop someone (within certain neighborhoods and with certain groups of people) with each stop being tracked in database and , according to some cops, the number of stops they make being used as a measure of their performance.

    So while under Terry police certainly have a right to stop suspicious people and perform protective pat downs this really seems to smell like the NYPD institutionally ignoring the limits - few as they are - that Terry places on them.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: NYPD Stop and Frisk Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    From the NY Times a couple of days ago

    I haven't read the opinion yet but according to the article the judge came down pretty hard on the Bloomberg administration and the Police department.
    All I can say is it's about time.
    In Illinois they frisk you then put you in handcuffs then tell you you're "being detained" for their (LEO's) "own safety."

    Cops are no different than the SS.....

    If they had microscopes they'd shove em up your yahoos and claim: "for our own safety."

    Cops are Nazi's and the first line of action when it comes to our tyrannical government(s)...

  6. #46
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    Re: NYPD Stop and Frisk Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Has there been one shred of evidence presented anywhere pointing to stop and frisk as having played any part in the reduction in crime because I sure as hell haven't seen it.
    But that's the nature of any societal study. There is no, what scientists call, control group, therefore there is no discernible way to prove anything.
    We also can't present "one shred of evidence" that even having a police department plays a part in reducing crime. They patrol and make arrests but we can't prove that they have "played any part in the reduction of crime."

    The proof you are requesting in your question will never exist so the lack of this evidence is meaningless.
    The painful fact is that Barack Obama is the president that Nixon always wanted to be. - Jon Turley
    If you have to exaggerate my point to make me wrong you've already given up.
    DON'T KILL BEES.

  7. #47
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    Re: NYPD Stop and Frisk Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    Isn't it somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy to conclude that "more blacks are involved in crime" if in the first instance more blacks are stopped than whites?
    Not really, no.
    The VAST VAST majority of arrests are not as a result of stop and question, they are via investigations and summary arrests.
    The number of arrests made through stops barely affects the statistics.
    The painful fact is that Barack Obama is the president that Nixon always wanted to be. - Jon Turley
    If you have to exaggerate my point to make me wrong you've already given up.
    DON'T KILL BEES.

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    Re: NYPD Stop and Frisk Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    The "procedure" or law was an outrageous breach of individual privacy and was being performed at will without the slightest probable cause or reasonable suspicion. It's blatantly unconstitutional, and frankly I'm shocked New Yorkers didn't rise up en masse when such a draconian procedure was introduced. Absolutely unacceptable.
    D, there isn't even a possible response to this. Please, please Google mere suspicion, reasonable suspicion, probable cause, NYS Criminal Procedure Law and the Fourth Amendment.
    You are so far afield in your comments I don't know where to begin.
    The painful fact is that Barack Obama is the president that Nixon always wanted to be. - Jon Turley
    If you have to exaggerate my point to make me wrong you've already given up.
    DON'T KILL BEES.

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    Re: NYPD Stop and Frisk Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    Murder represents a small portion of overall crime, and stop-and-frisk has shown very little utility for apprehending murderers.
    K, you have to extrapolate the bigger picture and the non-statistical affects on the criminal.
    If the decades old constitutionally accepted practice we (mistakenly) call stop and frisk is well known to NYC residents, fewer criminals will carry guns for fear of being caught with one.
    Plus, it's hard to argue that 80K guns off the street didn't reduce murders and other violent crime to some extent.
    The painful fact is that Barack Obama is the president that Nixon always wanted to be. - Jon Turley
    If you have to exaggerate my point to make me wrong you've already given up.
    DON'T KILL BEES.

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    Re: NYPD Stop and Frisk Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    The cases I'm referring are all violations until the officer asks the kid to empty his pockets at which point the cop arrests him or public display. The fact that the display is on orders of the police is irrelevant
    In that case the police officer is breaking the law. That's an issue of criminality and poor supervision.
    It's not a reflection of the stop and frisk procedure if the procedure is used improperly.
    The painful fact is that Barack Obama is the president that Nixon always wanted to be. - Jon Turley
    If you have to exaggerate my point to make me wrong you've already given up.
    DON'T KILL BEES.

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