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U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law[W:82]

Re: U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law

j-mac said:
And you are proving that you can't have a civil conversation...So don't reply to me anymore.
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Look, I'm the one actually discussing the law in question. You keep attacking ME for pointing out how I understand the law yet you keep making wrong claims on it.

Jesus Christ. It's **** like this that makes me take breaks from DP.

Once again, you show you are unwilling to answer questions. Why is that?

Keep it up, I hope you get banned. You trash up this site.
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I guess understanding the law in question trashes up the site. Knowledge is bad eh?

Here's the question that J-Mac refuses to answer:

Do you think that people should be allowed to hide taxable income and assets by putting them in foreign no questions asked banks who refuse to disclose information to the US government while everyone else pays their taxes legitimately?
 
Re: U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law

Tigger said:
That's fine. So long as they are barred from ever entering the United States again, owning property, businesses, or any other item of value inside the United States, and not allowed to make any money here.
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Only so long as anyone who is not a U.S. citizen is barred from doing any of that. Once they give up their citizenship, they are no different than any other foreign national.
 
Re: U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law

specklebang said:
I was an expat for 11 years and they never got a dime out of me. When I returned in 1974, I actually had "tax shock" because I had forgotten how unpleasant it is. But I paid them from then on and got on with my life. The more I paid them meant the more money I made. So the good outweighed the bad.
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I sure as hell had to pay while I was expat. Hell they wanted to take withholdings from me. I have to admit I much prefer the, "how the hell to I get out of paying the tax man so much" problems because I made I nice chunk. Much better than being church mouse poor. I think at one time I envied how well off church mice were.
 
Re: U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law

j-mac said:
Well, maybe like TNE said, some of them had issues with dual citizenship in their new countries. But all I know is that this class warfare that people like you just love to rail on about is not the answer to anything other than oppression.
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Class warfare indeed. If the purpose of FATCA were to actually recover lost tax revenue, it would be a disaster (given that it costs more to implement than it will ever recover).

fair·ness [fair-nis] noun
1. A net loss incurred in the name of "recovering lost tax revenue" in order to garner votes.
2. A tactic used to persuade that is characterized by an appeal to envy rather than evidence. He quickly lined his pockets by passing out promises of "fairness" to the dull and naïve.
 
Re: U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law

PirateMk1 said:
I sure as hell had to pay while I was expat. Hell they wanted to take withholdings from me. I have to admit I much prefer the, "how the hell to I get out of paying the tax man so much" problems because I made I nice chunk. Much better than being church mouse poor. I think at one time I envied how well off church mice were.
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I can't remember the exact title but wasn't that 360 day rule enough to cover you? Back then, you had a $50K deduction and we all conveniently made less than that (thats close to $250K inflation adjusted) so I don't know who you worked for. Were you a DA Civilian? You might have had your own set of rules. I worked for contractors and then owned a business in Korea in 1969. My first job there in 1963 paid a glorious $250 a month and I lived pretty well on that. When I got to Vietnam, the pay got much more serious and I had literally no expenses living on base so no US taxes and lots of savings. I paid (ha-ha) Korean taxes, like slipping Mr. Tax a $100 bill.
 
Re: U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law

Taylor said:
Class warfare indeed. If the purpose of FATCA were to actually recover lost tax revenue, it would be a disaster (given that it costs more to implement than it will ever recover).

fair·ness [fair-nis] noun
1. A net loss incurred in the name of "recovering lost tax revenue" in order to garner votes.
2. A tactic used to persuade that is characterized by an appeal to envy rather than evidence. He quickly lined his pockets by passing out promises of "fairness" to the dull and naïve.
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FATCA doesnt cost us more to implement that it recovers in lost tax revenue
 
Re: U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law

obvious Child said:
Neither is Sangha. It would really help if you had any idea what that law was about before posting about it.

Is there a requirement for the partisan hackery club where you are not allowed to research?
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j-mac said:
Keep it up, I hope you get banned. You trash up this site.
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Moderator's Warning:
Stop discussing each other and get back on topic. Others should follow that suggestion as well.
 
Re: U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law

specklebang said:
I can't remember the exact title but wasn't that 360 day rule enough to cover you? Back then, you had a $50K deduction and we all conveniently made less than that (thats close to $250K inflation adjusted) so I don't know who you worked for. Were you a DA Civilian? You might have had your own set of rules. I worked for contractors and then owned a business in Korea in 1969. My first job there in 1963 paid a glorious $250 a month and I lived pretty well on that. When I got to Vietnam, the pay got much more serious and I had literally no expenses living on base so no US taxes and lots of savings. I paid (ha-ha) Korean taxes, like slipping Mr. Tax a $100 bill.
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My expat days was 2003-2006. Worked for Kellogg Brown and Root on a LOGCAP project for Enduring Freedom and IOF or whatever they called it. About the second year in they did that to me. Bastards. Got one really large refund though. I believe my limit was 83,000 or thereabouts I have to actually look at my tax doc. I just Know that to avoid California tax I had to stay out 540 days. You believe that garbage?
 
j-mac said:
And another truism coming to pass...When you unfairly try to go after the wealthy and tax their success they just leave because they can afford to do so...So who's next in the progressive push for so called "income justice"? Well, it would have to be the middle class....and they can't afford to run....Buckle up people.
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I'm certainly not anywhere near being wealthy, but I totally agree that the government should keep their grubby hands off other people's money until they can get some kind of semblance of control on their OWN wasteful spending habits. I'm really finding myself more and more disgusted with our government and they way they step on citizens toes all the time.
 
Re: U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law

If I had a business in Farkaktastan and I sold my output to the Farkaktastanis, I wouldn't want to give America a penny. I would either lie like hell on the theory that the IRS can't really check up on me or I would get citizenship there unless, of course, their taxes are too high......

But if I did business with America, I would just lie like hell or just pay the taxes after Mitt Romney's CPA does them for me and I get the best deal I can.
 
Re: U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law

PirateMk1 said:
My expat days was 2003-2006. Worked for Kellogg Brown and Root on a LOGCAP project for Enduring Freedom and IOF or whatever they called it. About the second year in they did that to me. Bastards. Got one really large refund though. I believe my limit was 83,000 or thereabouts I have to actually look at my tax doc. I just Know that to avoid California tax I had to stay out 540 days. You believe that garbage?
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At least you got it back. Sort of a no interest savings plan.:)

540 days. Yeah, like I said, I don't really remember since I'm back 40 years now. KB&R is one of the biggies, huh? I worked for AAE, PA&E and some other lame outfit whose name escapes me now. Nobody even tried to take out taxes back then.
 
Re: U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law

I have never understood why people get mad when other people give up their citizenship to escape the clutches of the US government.

seriously it's none of your business.. if folks want to leave, for whatever reason.. wish 'em well and go on about your day... don't get all butthurt and stupid about it.
" 'merica!!.. love it or leave!!..." blablabla-****ing blah... grow up.


as for chasing Americans around the globe to get their money..well, the US is the only country that does that.
the entire globe, it seems, is US territory.... and Uncle Sam will come for you and get "his" money.
the best way to get away from that extremely messy hassle is to just renounce citizenship and go on about your life free of the US government's long reach.

sometimes, the benefits to being a US citizen aren't worth the tradeoff... depending on your circumstances, of course.


if you are considering renouncing citizenship, just don't do it over taxes, or of you do, just have another valid excuse ready.... the US government is very hostile to folks who don't want to pay US taxes... they, along with most liberals, think you are actually stealing their money.
they won't let you back in the country, even to visit.... that's how butthurt they get.
 
ChrisL said:
I'm certainly not anywhere near being wealthy, but I totally agree that the government should keep their grubby hands off other people's money until they can get some kind of semblance of control on their OWN wasteful spending habits. I'm really finding myself more and more disgusted with our government and they way they step on citizens toes all the time.
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But that's not what the law is about.

For instance, I sell you property A in the US. I tell you to deposit the payment in Account B in foreign country. I don't declare that sale or that account. I have evaded taxes. Should this be legal?

The law in question seeks to prevent this by mandating disclosure of such accounts. If I must disclose the assets in that account, I'm far less likely to not pay taxes on it.

Yeah, the law is a pain in the butt. But so is that $500 BILLION in unpaid taxes every year. We're all paying more taxes or having a higher deficit because people are evading taxation.
 
obvious Child said:
But that's not what the law is about.

For instance, I sell you property A in the US. I tell you to deposit the payment in Account B in foreign country. I don't declare that sale or that account. I have evaded taxes. Should this be legal?

The law in question seeks to prevent this by mandating disclosure of such accounts. If I must disclose the assets in that account, I'm far less likely to not pay taxes on it.

Yeah, the law is a pain in the butt. But so is that $500 BILLION in unpaid taxes every year. We're all paying more taxes or having a higher deficit because people are evading taxation.
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Well, you do have a point there. Loop holes should be closed IMO.
 
ChrisL said:
Well, you do have a point there. Loop holes should be closed IMO.
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I would agree with that, but I would also think that if this is what OC is asserting that is the norm in the type of thing happening by everyone that has a foreign bank account, then the onus is on him to prove that they are evading taxation....Innocent until proven guilty and all...
 
j-mac said:
I would agree with that, but I would also think that if this is what OC is asserting that is the norm in the type of thing happening by everyone that has a foreign bank account, then the onus is on him to prove that they are evading taxation....Innocent until proven guilty and all...
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Well, whatever loop holes in the law that exist which would allow that to take place should be taken care of as a preventative measure. We can't afford to lose any money to foreign countries.
 
ChrisL said:
Well, whatever loop holes in the law that exist which would allow that to take place should be taken care of as a preventative measure. We can't afford to lose any money to foreign countries.
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I fully agree. All I am saying is that this whole thing seems to be just yet another way to demonize the wealthy, and go after their money. If they are doing something shady, then by all means go after them, but we have to prove that is the case first...That's all....And do we really trust giving the IRS more and more power today?
 
j-mac said:
I fully agree. All I am saying is that this whole thing seems to be just yet another way to demonize the wealthy, and go after their money. If they are doing something shady, then by all means go after them, but we have to prove that is the case first...That's all....And do we really trust giving the IRS more and more power today?
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No, but I don't see it that way. I see it as closing a loop hole that shouldn't exist to begin with. No one should be able to do that IMO. I don't think closing loop holes that allow certain people to essentially cheat on their taxes is demonizing anyone.
 
obvious Child said:
But that's not what the law is about.

For instance, I sell you property A in the US. I tell you to deposit the payment in Account B in foreign country. I don't declare that sale or that account. I have evaded taxes. Should this be legal?

The law in question seeks to prevent this by mandating disclosure of such accounts. If I must disclose the assets in that account, I'm far less likely to not pay taxes on it.

Yeah, the law is a pain in the butt. But so is that $500 BILLION in unpaid taxes every year. We're all paying more taxes or having a higher deficit because people are evading taxation.
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Most countries don't tax foreign earned income.
 
A lot of expats aren't rich, but they are double taxed and taxed without representation.


j-mac said:
And another truism coming to pass...When you unfairly try to go after the wealthy and tax their success they just leave because they can afford to do so...So who's next in the progressive push for so called "income justice"? Well, it would have to be the middle class....and they can't afford to run....Buckle up people.
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Yeah, I think that that is a large part.

PeteEU said:
Bet most of those have absolutely nothing to do with taxes. Not all countries allow dual citizenship and that could be a big part of the number.
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ChrisL said:
Well, you do have a point there. Loop holes should be closed IMO.
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Indeed. This effective tax shelter has been in effect for quite some time. It's embarrassing that the IRS took this long to crack down. The whole UBS/Switzerland thing is pretty appalling considering that our deficit keeps rising partially due to increased tax evasion.

This law is a pain, but I do not see how reasonable people (stress reasonable people) can be against closing a tax shelter that only the privileged few can get.
 
j-mac said:
I fully agree. All I am saying is that this whole thing seems to be just yet another way to demonize the wealthy, and go after their money. If they are doing something shady, then by all means go after them, but we have to prove that is the case first...That's all....And do we really trust giving the IRS more and more power today?
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No one is giving the IRS power. The law merely requires banks to report accts held by US citizens.
 
Re: U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law

Cephus said:
Only so long as anyone who is not a U.S. citizen is barred from doing any of that. Once they give up their citizenship, they are no different than any other foreign national.
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Which they should be as well.
 
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