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Thread: Tenn. judge changes infant's name from 'Messiah'

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    Re: Tenn. judge changes infant's name from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I gather you're getting this from Volokh? It's not clear that the judge is making a "theological judgment" as per United States vs. Ballard. To me, she seems to be arguing that because the perception exists in the community, the name could cause unnecessary harm to the child. I don't know that I agree in this instance, but can certainly see how that reasoning might apply in other situations.

    If she is in fact making two separate arguments, as Volokh suggests, I don't know why the religious question is even relevant because she would be acting outside her authority to interpret and apply the law. Whether or not she interpreted the law appropriately is not relevant when you're not interpreting a law to begin with.
    Yes. I'm a regular reader of Volokh's.

    I thought about the "is she making a theological argument" angle for a while and concluded that she is because by invoking the Christian belief she is, I believe, lending it credence. I don't think the court can use theological belief as part of a decision without implicitly making a statement on court's view of the truthfulness of that belief. And that's plainly not allowed under Ballard.

    On the other hand if she was doing as you say and simply talking about local perceptions she certainly worded it clumsily. I didn't get that sense from her statements as they were written in the article.
    She didn't preface her comments with "There are alot of Christians in this community and they believe that Jesus is the messiah..." It sounded to me like a statement of fact though I haven't read the full text of her comments, only what was reported in the media.

    I agree with you I'm not sure the perception issue matters in the case. I would go one step further and say I'm not sure I want judges to have that level of authority over parents at all.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Tenn. judge changes infant's name from 'Messiah'

    I know people with last names like Dick and Kunt. I have never heard of judges forcing families to change.last names out of concern they will teased lol.



    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    ,
    Any and every name can invite ridicule on a child. Every single one. I pointed out a few already that are very common names. Here are some more. "Carey me home", "Ben there, done that", "Name's Ben, Is your last name "Dover"?", "Martin the Martian". Children will tease children about anything. Using potential teasing as justification is simply wrong. Plus, you can't even prove that the a boy with the name Messiah is more likely to be teased than any other children for their names.

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    Re: Tenn. judge changes infant's name from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I know people with last names like Dick and Kunt. I have never heard of judges forcing families to change.last names out of concern they will teased lol.
    I've known several people in the military with the last name "Cox". Plus, in the Navy, certain ratings are called "Seamen" as E-3s, including one of the ratings I went to nuke school with. We had Seaman Sampler, Seaman Tester, and Seaman Guzzler in the school just while I went through (they usually end up being girls that have these names). (One of the girls actually did request a new rate so she could be a Fireman rather than a Seaman due to the ridicule.)

    But there absolutely are worse first names and particularly last names that a child could have. A judge has no place changing their name to something else (particularly their first name) just because they disapprove of the name. They absolutely need much more than simple disapproval or personal belief. What if some judge simply hates the names "John" or "Samantha", perhaps someone they knew with that name hurt them. Should that judge be allowed to arbitrarily change a child's name because of that? How about some judge in Topeka changing all children named "Fred" to something else due to Fred Phelps and how much bad publicity he and his organization has caused the area?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Tenn. judge changes infant's name from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I know people with last names like Dick and Kunt. I have never heard of judges forcing families to change.last names out of concern they will teased lol.
    same. I know people with last names like Pigg, Screws, Butts, etc.


    race driver: Dick Trickle
    hockey player: Ron Tugnutt
    baseball players: Homer Bush, Johnny Dickshot, Dick Pole, Pete LaCock, Rusty Kuntz
    football players: B.J. Johnson, Harry Colon, Lucious Pusey, Dick Butkus, DeCody Fagg
    Russian skater: Irina Slutskaya
    olympic swimmer: Misty Hyman
    freesytle skier: Assol Slivets

    and let's not forget my favorite NBA player ever..... John "Chubby" Cox.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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    Re: Tenn. judge changes infant's name from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I've known several people in the military with the last name "Cox". Plus, in the Navy, certain ratings are called "Seamen" as E-3s, including one of the ratings I went to nuke school with. We had Seaman Sampler, Seaman Tester, and Seaman Guzzler in the school just while I went through (they usually end up being girls that have these names). (One of the girls actually did request a new rate so she could be a Fireman rather than a Seaman due to the ridicule.)

    But there absolutely are worse first names and particularly last names that a child could have. A judge has no place changing their name to something else (particularly their first name) just because they disapprove of the name. They absolutely need much more than simple disapproval or personal belief. What if some judge simply hates the names "John" or "Samantha", perhaps someone they knew with that name hurt them. Should that judge be allowed to arbitrarily change a child's name because of that? How about some judge in Topeka changing all children named "Fred" to something else due to Fred Phelps and how much bad publicity he and his organization has caused the area?
    there are a couple of guys in my reserve unit whose last name is Major. one is an O4 and one is an E5. so we have Major Major and Sargeant Major. When I was at OBC, one of our instructors was Captain Kirk
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Tenn. judge changes infant's name from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I know people with last names like Dick and Kunt. I have never heard of judges forcing families to change.last names out of concern they will teased lol.
    There's a small-time politician not too far from me whose last name is Cock. His tv ads pronounce it as "Coke".

    Sorry, dude, you ain't foolin' nobody.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Tenn. judge changes infant's name from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    there are a couple of guys in my reserve unit whose last name is Major. one is an O4 and one is an E5. so we have Major Major and Sargeant Major. When I was at OBC, one of our instructors was Captain Kirk
    Ever read "Catch 22". There's a character who's last name is Major who is also a Major. For reason I don't remember his parents also gave him the first name of Major so he's Major Major Major.

    (If you haven't read it, Catch 22 is possibly the greatest satire written in the last 100 years. It's absolutely one of the best American works ever produced and is funny as hell. One of my favorite books of all time)
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Tenn. judge changes infant's name from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    There's a small-time politician not too far from me whose last name is Cock. His tv ads pronounce it as "Coke".

    Sorry, dude, you ain't foolin' nobody.
    there is a politician named Dick Swett. there are millions of people with ****ed up names.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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    Re: Tenn. judge changes infant's name from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Ever read "Catch 22". There's a character who's last name is Major who is also a Major. For reason I don't remember his parents also gave him the first name of Major so he's Major Major Major.

    (If you haven't read it, Catch 22 is possibly the greatest satire written in the last 100 years. It's absolutely one of the best American works ever produced and is funny as hell. One of my favorite books of all time)
    I bought a used car from a guy named Junior Senior once. the kicker...his son was Junior Senior Junior
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Tenn. judge changes infant's name from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    there is a politician named Dick Swett. there are millions of people with ****ed up names.
    It still appears to me that "John Boehner" is pronounced like "Boner". I'm sure that even if it isn't supposed to be, that many children would assume it was.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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