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Thread: Tenn. judge changes infant's name from 'Messiah'

  1. #141
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    Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    I am old school when it comes to children in that they are essentially property till they reach the age of majority. After that they the children do as they please change their names and tell their parents to go to hell. Till then the parents have essentially absolute authority with VERY little area of interference by government and then only if it's criminal activity or life or death. Anything other as far as I am concerned is verboten. I wouldn't tolerate interference that's for damned sure. That's bring out the artillery time and go to war, no quarter expected or granted. You don't interfere with the raising of children without EXCEPTIONAL reason. The governments notion of proper raising of children has changed over the years. One should not be subject to fads or notions when it comes to child rearing.
    I find it hard to disagree with you here, but I still am not upset that a judge would look to protect the interests of the child, particularly where two parents are already fighting over a name.

    I have a little trouble with the children as chattle argument, but then again the state determines that parents are totally responsible for the care and upbringing of a child and its behaviour up to age 18 so with responsibility should also come autonomy to act. But, then, we don't allow parents to excessively discipline children anymore, so there are limits.

    I wouldn't mind if there was an easier, less costly way for a child to change his/her given names once they reach the age of maturity/majority. Just as you can bring back a lousy present your parents give you on your birthday, why can't you easily return the second gift they gave you, after they gave you life.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  2. #142
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    Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    In a custody dispute, and believe you me, I know all about custody law (*At least in NY State) the child is appointed a law guardian, or now called lawyer for the child. It is the "role" of the law guardian to represent the rights and wishes of the child within the confines of the law, and what's in the best interest of said child. In the case of a 7 month old, this becomes a bit of a burden, but it is possible that there is a whole lot more going on here with squabbling parents that is not being reported, and the guardian has first hand knowledge of it, and that's why he/she recommended the name be changed. The court referee (Judge) cannot rule on something that is not specifically asked for. My guess (and it's just a guess) is that Mom wants to stick it to Dad, or Dad wants to stick it to Mom, and the guardian was having none of it, and the judge agreed.


    Tim-
    We have the same independent legal office here, established to protect the interests of a minor, and I see it as a good thing. Children should not be used in disputes between parents or between parents and the government.
    Last edited by CanadaJohn; 08-12-13 at 04:32 PM.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  3. #143
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    Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I find it hard to disagree with you here, but I still am not upset that a judge would look to protect the interests of the child, particularly where two parents are already fighting over a name.

    I have a little trouble with the children as chattle argument, but then again the state determines that parents are totally responsible for the care and upbringing of a child and its behaviour up to age 18 so with responsibility should also come autonomy to act. But, then, we don't allow parents to excessively discipline children anymore, so there are limits.

    I wouldn't mind if there was an easier, less costly way for a child to change his/her given names once they reach the age of maturity/majority. Just as you can bring back a lousy present your parents give you on your birthday, why can't you easily return the second gift they gave you, after they gave you life.
    They were doing the typical divorced or separated parent thing and fighting over what last name the kid was going to have. Like I said the judge went way over the boundaries. Its one thing if its life and limb or criminal abuse, it entirely another with a name. Last I checked we still live in a free country. Though of late it seems less and less so.

    I agree if a kid wants to change their name when they hit age of majority it should be fairly simple and cheap, if not free.
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  4. #144
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    Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    We have the same independent legal office here, established to protect the interests of a minor, and I see it as a good thing. Children should not be used in desputes between parents or between parents and the government.
    Agreed wholeheartedly, now if I could just get my ex wife to see it that way, my stress would go down immensely.

    Now, that all said, and although I see the wisdom of having a lawyer for the child's interests, it is disproportionately one-sided. Most of these lawyers are fresh out of law school, working for legal aid, or failed lawyers. The cookie-cutter mentality of the family court in this country is pathetically in favor of the mother. Short of catching the Mother with a needle in her arm, courts almost always side with the Mother in these cases. My advice to would be Dads facing divorce with minor children. Document everything, record everything and anytime you have contact with your ex. It has saved me on numerous occasions from a lying, and all too willing legal system designed to support mothers.




    Tim-
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  5. #145
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    Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    They were doing the typical divorced or separated parent thing and fighting over what last name the kid was going to have. Like I said the judge went way over the boundaries. Its one thing if its life and limb or criminal abuse, it entirely another with a name. Last I checked we still live in a free country. Though of late it seems less and less so.

    I agree if a kid wants to change their name when they hit age of majority it should be fairly simple and cheap, if not free.

    That's all true, but when parents can't agree, the court is their only option outside of mediation. My experience is that mediation is for parents that mostly agree on how to raise their children, and is pretty much useless for parents bent on winning despite the best interests of their children. In that case, the court is the ultimate decider of children's fates, and like it or not, that is the way it is. This is why if you go into court, you'd better have the more compelling argument, and if you're the Dad, you better be rock solid not only philosophically, but legally precedent.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  6. #146
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    Re: Tenn. judge changes infant's name from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    The judge has rocks in her noggin. Her ruling violates the Establishment Clause.
    At worst, the judge failed to properly apply/interpret the law; she didn't violate the Establishment Clause.

  7. #147
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    Tenn. judge changes infant's name from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    At worst, the judge failed to properly apply/interpret the law; she didn't violate the Establishment Clause.
    “The word Messiah is a title and it’s a title that has only been earned by one person and that one person is Jesus Christ,” Judge Ballew said....


    This is pretty clearly a religion based argument and as such violates the Establishment Clause.

    Her second argument about the bullying isn't much better, especially how popular Messiah seems to be as a name - at least according to the article..
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

  8. #148
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    Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    The children aren't being punished. Their parents are unconventional or stupid or both. In any case they are free in this country to name their children as they wish. Any public official who says or tries to do otherwise ought to be hung from a lamppost and feed the crows.

    Your notions of antiquated are just that notions. My families and others methods of raising children have been time honored and tested and with very minor tweaking, work and well at producing self sufficient thinking individuals that can improvise, overcome and adapt to most situations. Not to mention, have a bit of financial success. Knowing how to swim with "sharks" is an essential skill.
    You try being called Messiah. Honored and tested or just antiquated and outdated? I am not so sure that bullying and things like that build character. You can build character by not allowing bullying, healthy competition and positive re-enforcement of acceptable behavior. You are free to believe what you want and I will do the same. I just think that more modern education methods do not need bullying, shark swimming and things like that.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    That's all true, but when parents can't agree, the court is their only option outside of mediation. My experience is that mediation is for parents that mostly agree on how to raise their children, and is pretty much useless for parents bent on winning despite the best interests of their children. In that case, the court is the ultimate decider of children's fates, and like it or not, that is the way it is. This is why if you go into court, you'd better have the more compelling argument, and if you're the Dad, you better be rock solid not only philosophically, but legally precedent.


    Tim-
    All true. Cant disagree with much. Maybe a quibble here or there. Meh.
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    Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    You try being called Messiah. Honored and tested or just antiquated and outdated? I am not so sure that bullying and things like that build character. You can build character by not allowing bullying, healthy competition and positive re-enforcement of acceptable behavior. You are free to believe what you want and I will do the same. I just think that more modern education methods do not need bullying, shark swimming and things like that.
    I have been called much worse and I have been bullied. That's how I learned to stand up for myself. I have had more ass kicking's then I care to count. Now that I think about, I don't think I EVER prevailed in a fight as just survived. But not but ONE bully came back for seconds, and none came back for thirds. I don't think we will agree. I guess some of us "mericans" are just backwards.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

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