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Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

apdst said:
You see how long it took to stabilize Japan and Germany and we didn't face near the challenges we faced in Iraq. That was my point when I mentioned the post-WW2 occupation

Do you see the difference?
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This doesn't compare at all to either Germany or Japan. So, yes, I see differences. Not sure your side does, as you keep with this comparison.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Then Saudi Arabia can spend some of its trillions to defend and fight from now on.
They break it off in our back sides, then need us to defend the very product they gouge us on. Can we get any more stupid in this nation.
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Oh abso-freakin-loutly-

How some ever if we don't defend our big oil interests in the Gulf, remember it is as much Exxon who rules the Middle East as any petty tyrant- which most our 'dear allies' are- if our big oil doesn't bring our big military our big oil can suck it.

Roosia and China would LOVE to assist their dear friends the Arabs with that nasty oil surplus problem. (and they have faaaar less qualms about human/women's rights and all that other western corrupting nonsense)

Hell the EU could put together both a oil consortium and military police force if it only has to stop Iran from south and look the other way when 'hooligans' cause problems over rights.

Oh and we don't get much oil from the Middle East- the countries that 'break it off in our backsides' are infact our dear neighbors, north and south....

(it is our own oil giants who rake in massive profits under the cover of USofA weapons selling to the rest of the world)
 
apdst said:
You see how long it took to stabilize Japan and Germany and we didn't face near the challenges we faced in Iraq. That was my point when I mentioned the post-WW2 occupation

Do you see the difference?
Click to expand...
Have to remember, a totally different peoples. Japan, knew it was beaten. Germany after the Nazis were removed and tried. Became an ally based on the fact that millions of Germans lived in the US already, as well as Italians.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Show me the difference. We bailed on Iraq, we bailed on Viet Nam.
We could have taken down every air plane Iraq had with air power. Not just warn them about the no fly zone.
How am I not being rational? Because I dont agree with you? You have some inside info we dont know about.
How many of your family is buried at Arlington over a worthless war?
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Iraq did,'t fly any combat planes anymore. You simply have no idea what you're talking about.
Comparing Vietnam to Iraq is nonsensical.
 
Artevelde said:
Iraq did,'t fly any combat planes anymore. You simply have no idea what you're talking about.
Comparing Vietnam to Iraq is nonsensical.
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The results are the same. We left and mass killings ensued. Pol Pot come to mind? The Khmer Rouge? The Killing Fields? The hundreds of thousands dead after we bailed after 14 years, billion of dollars, and 50K of our people dead?
You are the one that has no idea what you are talking about.
 
CRUE CAB said:
The results are the same. We left and mass killings ensued. Pol Pot come to mind? The Khmer Rouge? The Killing Fields? The hundreds of thousands dead after we bailed after 14 years, billion of dollars, and 50K of our people dead?
You are the one that has no idea what you are talking about.
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No use debating with people who are not interested in historical facts.
 
notquiteright said:
Oh abso-freakin-loutly-

How some ever if we don't defend our big oil interests in the Gulf, remember it is as much Exxon who rules the Middle East as any petty tyrant- which most our 'dear allies' are- if our big oil doesn't bring our big military our big oil can suck it.

Roosia and China would LOVE to assist their dear friends the Arabs with that nasty oil surplus problem. (and they have faaaar less qualms about human/women's rights and all that other western corrupting nonsense)

Hell the EU could put together both a oil consortium and military police force if it only has to stop Iran from south and look the other way when 'hooligans' cause problems over rights.

Oh and we don't get much oil from the Middle East- the countries that 'break it off in our backsides' are infact our dear neighbors, north and south....

(it is our own oil giants who rake in massive profits under the cover of USofA weapons selling to the rest of the world)
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I dont care what Russia or China do with oil from the ME. Really I dont.
Are we going to defend, protect and buy up every resource to keep it out of the hands of the "enemy"?
If that is the case, screw it. Lets just declare war on them and get it on.
 
CRUE CAB said:
The results are the same. We left and mass killings ensued. Pol Pot come to mind? The Khmer Rouge? The Killing Fields? The hundreds of thousands dead after we bailed after 14 years, billion of dollars, and 50K of our people dead?
You are the one that has no idea what you are talking about.
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Pol pot was in Cambodia. The Khmer Rouge was active in Cambodia.
 
Artevelde said:
No use debating with people who are not interested in historical facts.
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Oh, please. What "fact" am I missing?
We went to Kuwait to defend the oil producing nation and friend of Bush 1 from Iraq.
We went back to Iraq when Bush 2 came along to go after the man that went after his daddy. OK, I can dig that.
But we went under the BS vail of UN sanctions. Saddam is killing Kurds and such. Well who is at fault for that? We are.
We told them when we would be leaving giving them time to prepare for what they are doing now. Destabilizing the nation.
How much did that littel foray in the desert cost us? WAS IT WORTH IT?
I have asked that a couple times and you just try to back wash my posts saying "its no use debating". A sure sign you lost whatever debate you had.
Oh, and if you old enough. You may remember that we backed Iraq in the Iran Iraq war.
 
CRUE CAB said:
And they were given free reign to do whatever they wanted after we left. Tail tucked off embassy roofs after 50K our fellow Americans gave it all.
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I think your confusing veitnam with Cambodia.

I don't recall us even having a embassy in Cambodia.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
I think your confusing veitnam with Cambodia.

I don't recall us even having a embassy in Cambodia.
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My point is, South Viet Nam was over run by the North and destabilized for years.
And after 50K dead, was it worth it. Just like in Iraq. Was it worth it?
We took our vastly superior forces and hauled ass out of there throwing million of dollars of planes and helicoptors in to the ocean to make room for refugees.
What we left was a void filled by, just like Iraq, our enemies.
 
Artevelde said:
One can only achieve so much with air power.
Saying it was "just like Vietnam" is short for "I can't be bothered to think about it rationally".
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Very well said!
 
Diogenes said:
Very well said!
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Yes, lets keep sacrifcing our nations weath, our future generations for piss poor reasons.
Lets keep our noses in places we dont belong and continue to make enemies out of people we should have no business dealing with.
Lets keep doing bombing campaigns then sending in the engineers to build schools, roads and bridges while our schools, roads and bridges are falling apart.
If we dont get enough oil from the ME to make a difference? Then leave the ME. Let them fight it out. And if Russia and China wish to get involved over there. Let them. Maybe with some luck they will end up fighting each other.
Dont we have enough dead, injured, wounded Americans already? Do we need thousands more?
 
apdst said:
Looks like up and leaving wasn't such a great idea.
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Hmm.., Do ya think maybe there's a screwed up foreign policy. If you think this is bad wait until Obama retreat from Afghanistan. Blood will run like a flood in the cities of Afghanistan. that "Fundamental Transformation" is really working to bring our plus years of this incompetent administration and it has turned American foreign policy and our economy into a shambles. I foresee a scenario similar to that of the last days of Vietnam and overcrowded helicopters taking off from rooftops and landing on aircraft carriers.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Yes, lets keep sacrifcing our nations weath, our future generations for piss poor reasons.
Lets keep our noses in places we dont belong and continue to make enemies out of people we should have no business dealing with.
Lets keep doing bombing campaigns then sending in the engineers to build schools, roads and bridges while our schools, roads and bridges are falling apart.
If we dont get enough oil from the ME to make a difference? Then leave the ME. Let them fight it out. And if Russia and China wish to get involved over there. Let them. Maybe with some luck they will end up fighting each other.
Dont we have enough dead, injured, wounded Americans already? Do we need thousands more?
Click to expand...

And by all means let us bury our heads in the sand and pretend that the unpleasant aspects of reality simply don't exist! :roll:
 
CRUE CAB said:
Oh, please. What "fact" am I missing?
We went to Kuwait to defend the oil producing nation and friend of Bush 1 from Iraq.
We went back to Iraq when Bush 2 came along to go after the man that went after his daddy. OK, I can dig that.
But we went under the BS vail of UN sanctions. Saddam is killing Kurds and such. Well who is at fault for that? We are.
We told them when we would be leaving giving them time to prepare for what they are doing now. Destabilizing the nation.
How much did that littel foray in the desert cost us? WAS IT WORTH IT?
I have asked that a couple times and you just try to back wash my posts saying "its no use debating". A sure sign you lost whatever debate you had.
Oh, and if you old enough. You may remember that we backed Iraq in the Iran Iraq war.
Click to expand...

The Kurds were being killed and gassed by Saddam. He used Sarin and Mustard gas on them. He also drained the marshes to destroy the Marsh Arabs located there. Bush was also right about the WMD, that Clinton claimed was still there. Even Hillary and Kerry were for it before they were against it. We have proof today that WMD's were shipped to Syria. Assad has been using Sarin on his own people.
Bush's proposal of withdrawal included keeping boots on the ground in Iraq. Hussein Obama II retreated completely.
 
Diogenes said:
And by all means let us bury our heads in the sand and pretend that the unpleasant aspects of reality simply don't exist! :roll:
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Name one. Just one that we need to sacrifice US lives and millons for in the ME.
 
Wehrwolfen said:
The Kurds were being killed and gassed by Saddam. He used Sarin and Mustard gas on them. He also drained the marshes to destroy the Marsh Arabs located there. Bush was also right about the WMD, that Clinton claimed was still there. Even Hillary and Kerry were for it before they were against it. We have proof today that WMD's were shipped to Syria. Assad has been using Sarin on his own people.
Bush's proposal of withdrawal included keeping boots on the ground in Iraq. Hussein Obama II retreated completely.
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Proof? Where? Because Assad is using the same thing? Thats not proof. Show me pics of the empty shell casings. Show me the dead. Funny we have seen nothing of that in the news.
As far as Saddam sending war heads off to somewhere else, well gee. What do you think he was doing in the 18 months of run up to the war?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Which is the reason why we could not win in Vietnam. We could not attack certain targets in north veitnam because of the possibility of china retaliating against us.
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True. Note also that after years of fruitless negotiations, Nixon mined Haiphong harbor (previously off-limits) over Christmas 1972 and we were able to leave a few months later. South Vietnam, with serious material help from the US, was able to hold its own for a couple of years until a Democrat congress cut off funding. Then we were treated to the embarrassing photos of the Saigon embassy.
 
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