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Thread: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

  1. #181
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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Or they must experience it. The Japanese certainly didn't want democracy during or prior to WWII but they were forced, got it, and now it's doubtful they would want any emperor to return. If a theocracy, or any other dictatorship, can be brought about by force, as is usually the case, then there seems to be no reason why the opposite cannot be true.
    Japan is sort of the exception that proves the rule. Also, they were already a united people so that didn't need to be fought. Also they were forced to sign a surrender and lost in a for real war against America. Once we broke them, there was no real large scale resistance; their government mostly did as we said. There weren't neighboring countries that could destabilize the region either. So there are plenty of differences between WW II Japan and modern day Iraq.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Peope are always divided by some degrees but it seems apparent from the news we watched during the fiorst election the Iraqi people ever enjoyed that they were pleased. Now they are having an Islamist war forced on them with no one fighting for Democracy, now that the Americans and the Coalition have withdrawn. They really didn't have much of a chance because Democracy, as new to the country as the Internet, never got time to take root and become properly established.
    None so much as the religious divide that exists in Iraq. Fighting religion ain't easy, and when a people are entrenched in opposing and combative views and are willing to use violence to get their religion set into law above all else; you cannot maintain a free state. Iraq was stable under Saddam, and unfortunately it had to be that fear and iron fist there to keep them in line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    This region has never been stable. There was no benefit because there were no safeguards to protect what was won. The Islamists didn't win the war as much as the Leftists in the West did.

    I think Democracy and freedom may be more popular idea around the world than you might imagine. There were a lot of purple fingers and smiling faces during that first Iraqi election.
    Region was well stable in the past. The ME is birthplace of human civilization. It brought us astronomy and math and science. There may have been a lot of purple fingers and smiling faces during the first Iraqi election, but if the People as a whole are not resolved to keep freedom, then there is no way they will be able to keep freedom.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #182
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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Yes, lets keep sacrifcing our nations weath, our future generations for piss poor reasons.
    Lets keep our noses in places we dont belong and continue to make enemies out of people we should have no business dealing with.
    Lets keep doing bombing campaigns then sending in the engineers to build schools, roads and bridges while our schools, roads and bridges are falling apart.
    If we dont get enough oil from the ME to make a difference? Then leave the ME. Let them fight it out. And if Russia and China wish to get involved over there. Let them. Maybe with some luck they will end up fighting each other.
    Dont we have enough dead, injured, wounded Americans already? Do we need thousands more?
    You think it will be lucky if Russia and China go to war??? Spoken like a true 'moderate'.

  3. #183
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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you feel people everywhere are generally against freedom and would be more inclined to fight for a dictatorship? In fact you gain freedom by fighting those who are against and freedom is seldom, if ever, "forced". Did it have to be forced on you?
    I'm in a culture where we're losing our freedom because people are not resolved to keep it. But yes, if a People come together to fight tyranny they have taken the first steps necessary to secure and keep it. They have to be willing to take that step, they must resolve themselves to the repercussions and responsibilities that freedom entails. The people of Iraq are well too fractured to stand together and united in the manner that is necessary to keep freedom. And that was well obvious before we went in.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #184
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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Japan is sort of the exception that proves the rule. Also, they were already a united people so that didn't need to be fought. Also they were forced to sign a surrender and lost in a for real war against America. Once we broke them, there was no real large scale resistance; their government mostly did as we said. There weren't neighboring countries that could destabilize the region either. So there are plenty of differences between WW II Japan and modern day Iraq.
    That's why all wars should be "for real" wars, not the cut and run wars which have taken hold in the west during the last few decades. Nixon, btw, was the one who warned about this happening and the usual "It's another Vietnam" from the usual suspects.

    None so much as the religious divide that exists in Iraq. Fighting religion ain't easy,
    Don't confuse Islam with Islamists. It is not a religious war any more than fighting Communism, Fascism or Nazism were religious wars. It is, as usual. all about power.

    and when a people are entrenched in opposing and combative views and are willing to use violence to get their religion set into law above all else; you cannot maintain a free state.
    But thats what happened in those former Communist, Fascist and Nazi nations. You'd have trouble finding supporting evidence for this point of view.

    Iraq was stable under Saddam, and unfortunately it had to be that fear and iron fist there to keep them in line.
    People don't have to be 'kept in line' by brutal dictatorships, Have you really thought deeply about what you are saying about people?

    Region was well stable in the past. The ME is birthplace of human civilization. It brought us astronomy and math and science.
    I was referring to more recent centuries.

    There may have been a lot of purple fingers and smiling faces during the first Iraqi election, but if the People as a whole are not resolved to keep freedom, then there is no way they will be able to keep freedom.
    If they bon\t have the training and weaponry then of course the more violent will win. Do you believe the people genuinely wanted to live under Communism?

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Who is "we"? The 'Right"? The Left" The Republicans? The Democrats?


    But instead the American people turned on themselves, just as they have done since the late 60's.



    According to many Americans every war in which they have been involved, including the Cold War, has been worthless. They'll probably be smarter within the next 20 or so years, which is too late for a wake-up call. The Left in America has the same attitudes toward their country as their enemies do.
    The US.
    Wont be smarter, will do it all over again. Lucky for me, Iam at an age now, I probably wont be here to say I told you so.

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You think it will be lucky if Russia and China go to war??? Spoken like a true 'moderate'.
    That was kind of tongue in cheek. But watching our two biggest enemies go at it would be a hoot.

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I'm in a culture where we're losing our freedom because people are not resolved to keep it. But yes, if a People come together to fight tyranny they have taken the first steps necessary to secure and keep it.
    How can they oppose it when the fanatics have all the guns and are willing to lose their lives in order to achieve the visions of Allah?

    They have to be willing to take that step, they must resolve themselves to the repercussions and responsibilities that freedom entails. The people of Iraq are well too fractured to stand together and united in the manner that is necessary to keep freedom. And that was well obvious before we went in.
    Whatever Osama Bin Laden was, hw was not an idiot. He said that the people will follow the strongest horse and he was right. The West barely has a horse in the race, and the Islamists know it.

    You'll see Muslims saying they do not support terrorism when, like the Leftists, they are only critical of the west and their leaders. Who do you think will win the long war. this WWIV?

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    That was kind of tongue in cheek. But watching our two biggest enemies go at it would be a hoot.
    I doubt they are your biggest enemies. They may be irritants but that's about as far as it goes.

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    The US.
    Wont be smarter, will do it all over again. Lucky for me, Iam at an age now, I probably wont be here to say I told you so.
    I sincerely hope you are here to tell me "I told you so", Crue Cab.

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    What a total cluster mess Iraq has turned out to be....

    Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities | Reuters
    Thank you George Bush for giving us Iraq. And thank you Ronald Reagan, for giving us Afghanistan.

    Conservative foreign policy at its finest.

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