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Thread: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

  1. #171
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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Andy View Post
    Yeah.

    Because the Middle East was a model of stability before that evil George Bush came along.

    Was or wasnt, it wasnt our problem. And was it worth the billions and lives cost?

  2. #172
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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Was or wasnt, it wasnt our problem. And was it worth the billions and lives cost?
    Of course it was our problem.

    The instability in the region was and still is directly spilling over into the United States.

    It is a problem that will have to be dealt with at some point and Iraq should have been a good starting point. It could have certainly gone better from a military standpoint but the biggest failing there was in not seizing the oil. The money from that would have gone a long way to building a stable society and paying down our own costs. Iraq has some of the largest verified oil reserves in the world. We could have flooded the area with money at no cost to us and helped them build a stable country.

    We listened to the college students though.

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    We kicked them out of Kuwait and the Iran Iraq war was over.
    And at this rate, how long before the "large scale massacres" pale in comparison.
    And you didnt answer my question. Was it worth it?
    Our investment in lives and money have helped almost break OUR nation.
    Yes, the US appears to be breaking up but it was not the lives lost or the money spent that did it; it was the American people turning on themselves. The corrupt media and politicians, who voted for a war before they voted against it, or some such malarkey, turned against the President and their own country. The Left cannot restrain itself in their anti American attitudes, even when their country is at war.

    American leaders only need clear their throats when mentioning a belligerent nation and the robotic Left will immediately proclaim "It's another Vietnam" or "It's all about oil". (It was 'all about oil' in Vietnam too ,btw).

    When soldiers are abandoned in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, losing their lives, limbs, friends, for nothing, would anyone but the Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan types (and the US military was forced to call the local 911 for help when he began firing) or the punk Bradley Manning.

    But although the US may be trying to escape their international military defeats, the police in America have been ably demonstrating their 'take no prisoners' approach.

    Bottled-water purchase leads to night in jail for UVa student - The Daily Progress: News

    IRS Tea Party Intimidation An Echo Of Raids On Gibson Guitar - Investors.com

    Was police killing of 95-year-old necessary? - Chicago Tribune

    Armed agents raid animal shelter for baby deer | News - WISN Home

    But the brokest nation in world history still is able to borrow or print enough money to have highly skilled protectors and private transport for 'the First Dog'.


    First dog Bo is airlifted to Obama holiday home - Telegraph

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Show me the difference. We bailed on Iraq, we bailed on Viet Nam.
    Who is "we"? The 'Right"? The Left" The Republicans? The Democrats?
    We could have taken down every air plane Iraq had with air power. Not just warn them about the no fly zone.
    But instead the American people turned on themselves, just as they have done since the late 60's.

    How many of your family is buried at Arlington over a worthless war?
    According to many Americans every war in which they have been involved, including the Cold War, has been worthless. They'll probably be smarter within the next 20 or so years, which is too late for a wake-up call. The Left in America has the same attitudes toward their country as their enemies do.

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That is impossible to do with a foreign, occupying force and a divided people. We could not bring them democracy or stability, that should have been recognized beforehand. You can't force freedom.
    Actually you can, but it must be maintained and nurtured.

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Actually you can, but it must be maintained and nurtured.
    Freedom cannot be brought down upon a people by force, they must want it. We see in Iraq what happens when you try to force the issue to a divided people. All we did was contribute to the instability of the region, we added no benefit. And there's nothing to "maintain and nurture", imperial occupation and demands forced upon a people cannot bring freedom either.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You can force stability.
    Yes, you can. Saddam was a perfect demonstration of that. You cannot, however, force freedom.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Freedom cannot be brought down upon a people by force, they must want it.
    Or they must experience it. The Japanese certainly didn't want democracy during or prior to WWII but they were forced, got it, and now it's doubtful they would want any emperor to return. If a theocracy, or any other dictatorship, can be brought about by force, as is usually the case, then there seems to be no reason why the opposite cannot be true.
    We see in Iraq what happens when you try to force the issue to a divided people.
    Peope are always divided by some degrees but it seems apparent from the news we watched during the fiorst election the Iraqi people ever enjoyed that they were pleased. Now they are having an Islamist war forced on them with no one fighting for Democracy, now that the Americans and the Coalition have withdrawn. They really didn't have much of a chance because Democracy, as new to the country as the Internet, never got time to take root and become properly established.
    All we did was contribute to the instability of the region, we added no benefit. And there's nothing to "maintain and nurture", imperial occupation and demands forced upon a people cannot bring freedom either.
    This region has never been stable. There was no benefit because there were no safeguards to protect what was won. The Islamists didn't win the war as much as the Leftists in the West did.

    I think Democracy and freedom may be more popular idea around the world than you might imagine. There were a lot of purple fingers and smiling faces during that first Iraqi election.

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes, you can. Saddam was a perfect demonstration of that. You cannot, however, force freedom.
    Do you feel people everywhere are generally against freedom and would be more inclined to fight for a dictatorship? In fact you gain freedom by fighting those who are against and freedom is seldom, if ever, "forced". Did it have to be forced on you?

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Oh, please. What "fact" am I missing?
    We went to Kuwait to defend the oil producing nation and friend of Bush 1 from Iraq.
    We went back to Iraq when Bush 2 came along to go after the man that went after his daddy. OK, I can dig that.
    But we went under the BS vail of UN sanctions. Saddam is killing Kurds and such. Well who is at fault for that? We are.
    We told them when we would be leaving giving them time to prepare for what they are doing now. Destabilizing the nation.
    How much did that littel foray in the desert cost us? WAS IT WORTH IT?
    I have asked that a couple times and you just try to back wash my posts saying "its no use debating". A sure sign you lost whatever debate you had.
    Oh, and if you old enough. You may remember that we backed Iraq in the Iran Iraq war.
    You should demand a refund from wherever you learned your history. Was it Detroit?

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