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Thread: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    It is also true that not all Germans were Nazis. But because their leaders were Nazis, there was heavy collateral damage among the non-Nazis. As long as the Islamists hide behind the innocent, those innocents are at extreme risk - unless, of course, you lack the moral courage to do the right thing and eliminate the bad guys; in that case, the bad guys win.
    It is very hard to separate the good people from the bad if the good people protect and make excuses for the bad.

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Can't undo going there. But, we should have made sure things were going to remain stable, before we left.
    You assume that was possible. As one trooper said some years ago, "we could stay here a year,or fifty years, the result will be they same." It has and will always be up to the Iraqis. Once we destabilized the country, the out come was beyond our control.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    It's a good thing we left, but we never should have been there in the first place.

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Yeah they were REAL FREAKIN' stable while we were there!

    Look at any stats/graphs on civilians deaths and you see using 2008 as measure, the first half was high, a sudden drop off in the last half and roughly 1/3 the number since. So those who lament a lack of 'leadership' under President Obama have not done their homework.

    Those who use such vague words like 'stable' just quibble. The death toll is stable, the government is stable, the borders stable, and oil production stable.

    None of which means much, just the killing continues at a lower rate than the first half of '08, the government hasn't dissolved, the borders are still there and as 'secure' as when we were there, and oil flows but not like the predictions of those who assured the American Public we would be greeted with flowers and candies...

    We didn't fix much or stablize anything, simply changed the face of fear from a few to many.
    Hence the reason we shouldnt have just up and hauled ass. How long did it take to stabilize Japan and Germany?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Hence the reason we shouldnt have just up and hauled ass. How long did it take to stabilize Japan and Germany?
    We must have had different history classes in school... I don't recall reading about German or Japanese 'dead-enders' killing thousands of American soldiers after VE/VJ day, nor reading anything about the civilians of either nation killing thousands of their own every month for the years we occupied both nations. I also don't remember either nation being an artificial series of lines on a map combining ethnic/religious groups with a long hatred for each other into a nation state like most of the Middle East.

    I did read where we spent years and thousands of American lives beating both WWII enemy countries into piles of rubble that left little doubt both nations, who either attacked us directly of attempted world domination, got one hellova beat down and were very defeated nations.

    We gave massive aid to both nations- something BushII's neocons haughtily refused to do at first helping set in motion much of the violence in Iraq. Hungry men with automatic weapons and tons of munitions left lying around because we didn't secure them...

    FYI, no yardstick a con can bring to the debate can EVER compare the stabilization we affected in German and Japanese after WWII to anything BushII's team affected in Iraq. (That is what you attempted to claim at first)

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    We must have had different history classes in school... I don't recall reading about German or Japanese 'dead-enders' killing thousands of American soldiers after VE/VJ day, nor reading anything about the civilians of either nation killing thousands of their own every month for the years we occupied both nations. I also don't remember either nation being an artificial series of lines on a map combining ethnic/religious groups with a long hatred for each other into a nation state like most of the Middle East.

    I did read where we spent years and thousands of American lives beating both WWII enemy countries into piles of rubble that left little doubt both nations, who either attacked us directly of attempted world domination, got one hellova beat down and were very defeated nations.

    We gave massive aid to both nations- something BushII's neocons haughtily refused to do at first helping set in motion much of the violence in Iraq. Hungry men with automatic weapons and tons of munitions left lying around because we didn't secure them...

    FYI, no yardstick a con can bring to the debate can EVER compare the stabilization we affected in German and Japanese after WWII to anything BushII's team affected in Iraq. (That is what you attempted to claim at first)
    I think they know just enough about history to get it wrong. They too often miss very important differences.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #107
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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Any act of terrorism which endangers or takes innocent human lives is disgusting.

    R.I.P. to innocent victims caught up in the Sunni-Shiite violence which has escalated to the point that July alone, we saw the highest death toll in Iraq since 2008.

    Not good news at all for the Iraqis. Iraq's political leaders need to do more to take action to stop the madness.

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    We must have had different history classes in school... I don't recall reading about German or Japanese 'dead-enders' killing thousands of American soldiers after VE/VJ day, nor reading anything about the civilians of either nation killing thousands of their own every month for the years we occupied both nations. I also don't remember either nation being an artificial series of lines on a map combining ethnic/religious groups with a long hatred for each other into a nation state like most of the Middle East.

    I did read where we spent years and thousands of American lives beating both WWII enemy countries into piles of rubble that left little doubt both nations, who either attacked us directly of attempted world domination, got one hellova beat down and were very defeated nations.

    We gave massive aid to both nations- something BushII's neocons haughtily refused to do at first helping set in motion much of the violence in Iraq. Hungry men with automatic weapons and tons of munitions left lying around because we didn't secure them...

    FYI, no yardstick a con can bring to the debate can EVER compare the stabilization we affected in German and Japanese after WWII to anything BushII's team affected in Iraq. (That is what you attempted to claim at first)
    You're comparison only reinforces the fact that it was far too early to leave.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I think they know just enough about history to get it wrong. They too often miss very important differences.
    You see how long it took to stabilize Japan and Germany and we didn't face near the challenges we faced in Iraq. That was my point when I mentioned the post-WW2 occupation

    Do you see the difference?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You're comparison only reinforces the fact that it was far too early to leave.
    No Sir, it reinforces the lesson forgotten in Vietnam, we could stay until cows learn calculus and Iraq will still have car bombs and groups of men found with hands tied and a single gunshot to the head- the only thing they would have in common is religious sect.

    Iraq wasn't stable when the Great Cowboy BushII ran the show, but it is far less violent now than back when he was CiC. The only difference if we stayed to 'stabilize' Iraq would be an average of 2 dozen more dead American soldiers per month if our people were out in the street attempting to curb the violence.

    My comparison reinforces the simple fact you never get between two cousins armed with knives hell bent on killing each other- you will get cut by both as they try and get at each other.

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