Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

Conservative · Aug 29, 2013

Boo Radley said:
I don't care if you think Obama is a liar.

And I told you we will adapt to doctors, and showed you through links that we're already using other health professionals (which lowers costs BTW), and that you're overstating the problem. I also showed you how UHC fixes all those problems. So, repeating your mantra won't change this.

Your opinion noted and I know you don't care if I think Obama is a liar but millions of Americans who lose their doctors and their healthcare plan will, we haven't adapted in MA and there is no assurance we will adapt at the Federal level and if we do how long will it take? "WE" have never adapted to eliminating the waste, fraud, and abuse of the Federal Govt. and never will until we get rid of all this current crop of Representatives in Congress especially the leadership. You have showed theory and we have seen how liberal theory works. you ignore the results and continue to buy the rhetoric.

Boo Radley · Aug 29, 2013

jonny5 said:
They arent. :2wave: :2razz:

they are. Hands down.

These 21 graphs (one of them you'll see above) from the International Federation of Health Plans, via Ezra Klein, start to paint the picture. The average routine office visit in the U.S. is three-times more expensive than in Canada. The average CT scan is five-times more expensive than in Canada. And as a share of GDP, our health care costs are an ignominious colossus towering over the rest of the world:

Why Is American Health Care So Ridiculously Expensive? - Derek Thompson - The Atlantic

Many of the countries that spend the most per capita on health care have highly privatized systems. In the U.S. and Switzerland, which spend the most and third-most on health care, respectively, the government pays less than 65% of the total health care costs. In most of the countries in the developed world, public expenditure accounts for at least 70% of total costs.

10 Countries Spending The Most On Health Care: 24/7 Wall St.

WINSTON-SALEM, N.C., Feb. 3 (UPI) -- A U.S. health economist says Americans think their healthcare system is the most advanced in the world, but it is merely the most expensive.

Michael Lawlor, a professor of economics and health policy Wake Forest University said the cost of U.S. healthcare services is extremely high and average American consumers, even if covered, do not get a greater quantity of healthcare services or even more convenience for the high cost they pay compared to the average developed country. They simply pay more for each unit of that quantity, Lawlor said.

Read more: Expert: U.S. healthcare the most expensive in the world, not best - UPI.com

Just the first three links of a search. There's no excuse for you not knowing better.

Boo Radley · Aug 29, 2013

Conservative said:
Your opinion noted and I know you don't care if I think Obama is a liar but millions of Americans who lose their doctors and their healthcare plan will, we haven't adapted in MA and there is no assurance we will adapt at the Federal level and if we do how long will it take? "WE" have never adapted to eliminating the waste, fraud, and abuse of the Federal Govt. and never will until we get rid of all this current crop of Representatives in Congress especially the leadership. You have showed theory and we have seen how liberal theory works. you ignore the results and continue to buy the rhetoric.

If their doctor drops them, their doctor is not worth having. But that doesn't change the facts I've given you.

Conservative · Aug 29, 2013

Boo Radley said:
they are. Hands down.

These 21 graphs (one of them you'll see above) from the International Federation of Health Plans, via Ezra Klein, start to paint the picture. The average routine office visit in the U.S. is three-times more expensive than in Canada. The average CT scan is five-times more expensive than in Canada. And as a share of GDP, our health care costs are an ignominious colossus towering over the rest of the world:

Why Is American Health Care So Ridiculously Expensive? - Derek Thompson - The Atlantic

Many of the countries that spend the most per capita on health care have highly privatized systems. In the U.S. and Switzerland, which spend the most and third-most on health care, respectively, the government pays less than 65% of the total health care costs. In most of the countries in the developed world, public expenditure accounts for at least 70% of total costs.

10 Countries Spending The Most On Health Care: 24/7 Wall St.

WINSTON-SALEM, N.C., Feb. 3 (UPI) -- A U.S. health economist says Americans think their healthcare system is the most advanced in the world, but it is merely the most expensive.

Michael Lawlor, a professor of economics and health policy Wake Forest University said the cost of U.S. healthcare services is extremely high and average American consumers, even if covered, do not get a greater quantity of healthcare services or even more convenience for the high cost they pay compared to the average developed country. They simply pay more for each unit of that quantity, Lawlor said.

Read more: Expert: U.S. healthcare the most expensive in the world, not best - UPI.com

Just the first three links of a search. There's no excuse for you not knowing better.

Oh, Wow, is all I can say, we need the Federal Govt. setting prices in a private sector economy? Of course that wouldn't be for your industry, right? These articles ignore the basics of business economics and that is what really drives up cost but that doesn't matter to big govt. liberals. Govt. regulations, govt. requirements, individual taxes, education costs, malpractice insurance obviously have no place in the cost structures in that liberal world so what the liberals would do is destroy it and replace it with a program that the govt. controls and a program where there is no incentive or competition.

I find people like you naive, gullible, and willing to buy articles like you posted without delving into those articles and questioning their findings. Until you understand the effects of govt. on pricing you will always remain a tool for the left.

Boo Radley · Aug 29, 2013

Conservative said:
Oh, Wow, is all I can say, we need the Federal Govt. setting prices in a private sector economy? Of course that wouldn't be for your industry, right? These articles ignore the basics of business economics and that is what really drives up cost but that doesn't matter to big govt. liberals. Govt. regulations, govt. requirements, individual taxes, education costs, malpractice insurance obviously have no place in the cost structures in that liberal world so what the liberals would do is destroy it and replace it with a program that the govt. controls and a program where there is no incentive or competition.

I find people like you naive, gullible, and willing to buy articles like you posted without delving into those articles and questioning their findings. Until you understand the effects of govt. on pricing you will always remain a tool for the left.

Setting prices? No. Like your insurance company and saying what they will pay, sure. You will always be free to buy more. You might consider doing more investigating than listening to a skewed propaganda machine.

Conservative · Aug 29, 2013

Boo Radley said:
Setting prices? No. Like your insurance company and saying what they will pay, sure. You will always be free to buy more. You might consider doing more investigating than listening to a skewed propaganda machine.

Don't have to listen to propaganda but rather will let you do it, I look for results and when I do I see waste, fraud, and abuse that liberals like you said we would clean up many times in the past but never have. Now you want the govt. to implement another entitlement program and set prices which is a prescription for disaster. You have no idea what you are talking about and totally ignore the costs associated with U.S. Healthcare directly attributed to by the U.S. Govt.

Conservative · Aug 29, 2013

Boo Radley said:
If their doctor drops them, their doctor is not worth having. But that doesn't change the facts I've given you.

Yes, it makes Obama's statement a lie but that doesn't matter because you have been brainwashed by an ideology. I had my doctor for over 21 years and now he has dropped Medicare. Try telling me why he isn't worth having? Tell that to the millions of Americans who will lose their doctor or their healthcare. Sure am glad you know what is worth having.

Boo Radley · Aug 29, 2013

Conservative said:
Don't have to listen to propaganda but rather will let you do it, I look for results and when I do I see waste, fraud, and abuse that liberals like you said we would clean up many times in the past but never have. Now you want the govt. to implement another entitlement program and set prices which is a prescription for disaster. You have no idea what you are talking about and totally ignore the costs associated with U.S. Healthcare directly attributed to by the U.S. Govt.

Well, you must be opposed to private business and large corporations as well, as they have waste, fraud, and abuse as well. you have a limited work area with those standards if instead of trying to root those out, you just say we can't do it. :lamo:lamo:lamo

Boo Radley · Aug 29, 2013

Conservative said:
Yes, it makes Obama's statement a lie but that doesn't matter because you have been brainwashed by an ideology. I had my doctor for over 21 years and now he has dropped Medicare. Try telling me why he isn't worth having? Tell that to the millions of Americans who will lose their doctor or their healthcare. Sure am glad you know what is worth having.

So, you don't like Obama. I get that. Do a better job of picking a candidate. But that has little to do with the issue before us. so, again, why would you want a doctor who won't see you? And if you're as well off as you say, just pay him.

Conservative · Aug 29, 2013

Boo Radley said:
Well, you must be opposed to private business and large corporations as well, as they have waste, fraud, and abuse as well. you have a limited work area with those standards if instead of trying to root those out, you just say we can't do it. :lamo:lamo:lamo

When a business has waste, fraud, and abuse they go out of business as you will find out when you form your JV. when the govt. has waste, fraud, and abuse they print or borrow more money and people like you support more taxpayer spending. Just think of the windfall the bureaucrats will get with Obamacare funding. Anyone think that will be efficiently used?

Non one says it cannot be done only that it won't be done because a 3.77 trillion dollar govt. is far from efficient

Conservative · Aug 29, 2013

Boo Radley said:
So, you don't like Obama. I get that. Do a better job of picking a candidate. But that has little to do with the issue before us. so, again, why would you want a doctor who won't see you? And if you're as well off as you say, just pay him.

No, you don't get it, I don't like Obama's policies nor the way Romney was destroyed by the Press and demonized by liberals with an agenda. Nice try at diversion, I am waiting for you to explain why my doctor of 21 years isn't worth having? My doctor is in business to take care of me and funding his family. He was doing both for 21 years and now Obama lies are forcing him out Keep buying the Obama lies.

jonny5 · Aug 29, 2013

Boo Radley said:
they are. Hands down.

These 21 graphs (one of them you'll see above) from the International Federation of Health Plans, via Ezra Klein, start to paint the picture. The average routine office visit in the U.S. is three-times more expensive than in Canada. The average CT scan is five-times more expensive than in Canada. And as a share of GDP, our health care costs are an ignominious colossus towering over the rest of the world:

Why Is American Health Care So Ridiculously Expensive? - Derek Thompson - The Atlantic

Many of the countries that spend the most per capita on health care have highly privatized systems. In the U.S. and Switzerland, which spend the most and third-most on health care, respectively, the government pays less than 65% of the total health care costs. In most of the countries in the developed world, public expenditure accounts for at least 70% of total costs.

10 Countries Spending The Most On Health Care: 24/7 Wall St.

WINSTON-SALEM, N.C., Feb. 3 (UPI) -- A U.S. health economist says Americans think their healthcare system is the most advanced in the world, but it is merely the most expensive.

Michael Lawlor, a professor of economics and health policy Wake Forest University said the cost of U.S. healthcare services is extremely high and average American consumers, even if covered, do not get a greater quantity of healthcare services or even more convenience for the high cost they pay compared to the average developed country. They simply pay more for each unit of that quantity, Lawlor said.

Read more: Expert: U.S. healthcare the most expensive in the world, not best - UPI.com

Just the first three links of a search. There's no excuse for you not knowing better.

Those graphs are wrong.

eace

Boo Radley · Aug 29, 2013

Conservative said:
When a business has waste, fraud, and abuse they go out of business as you will find out when you form your JV. when the govt. has waste, fraud, and abuse they print or borrow more money and people like you support more taxpayer spending. Just think of the windfall the bureaucrats will get with Obamacare funding. Anyone think that will be efficiently used?

Non one says it cannot be done only that it won't be done because a 3.77 trillion dollar govt. is far from efficient

No, they don't. We bail the big ones out. They cause lots of harm, and sometimes make lots of money while doing it.

Boo Radley · Aug 29, 2013

Conservative said:
No, you don't get it, I don't like Obama's policies nor the way Romney was destroyed by the Press and demonized by liberals with an agenda. Nice try at diversion, I am waiting for you to explain why my doctor of 21 years isn't worth having? My doctor is in business to take care of me and funding his family. He was doing both for 21 years and now Obama lies are forcing him out Keep buying the Obama lies.

Romney destroyed himself. Quit blaming others.

He isn't worth because he doesn't care enough to keep you. No loyalty at all. And he could keep you and take care of his family. It's a false choice you're laying out.

Conservative · Aug 29, 2013

Boo Radley said:
No, they don't. We bail the big ones out. They cause lots of harm, and sometimes make lots of money while doing it.

Yes, and you would reward the bureaucrats in D.C. by giving them access to more money to do more of the same.

Conservative · Aug 29, 2013

Boo Radley said:
Romney destroyed himself. Quit blaming others.

He isn't worth because he doesn't care enough to keep you. No loyalty at all. And he could keep you and take care of his family. It's a false choice you're laying out.

Obama got 2 million fewer votes than he got in 2008 and won the election because conservatives stayed home and he was elected by poor voter turnout. The American people dependent on liberalism voted in numbers and minorities voted for him because he was black. You supported him because you bought the rhetoric.

As for my doctor, he didn't go into business to take care of me, he became a doctor to take care of his family. I dropped traditional Medicare and will keep him as my doctor. You are very naive, gullible, and misinformed. If you care so much about everyone else what are you doing to personally help those in need. Want to compare contributions to charity? Yours is the typical leftwing false narrative where spending in the name of compassion is all that matters, not compassionate results.

Boo Radley · Aug 29, 2013

jonny5 said:
Those graphs are wrong.

Because you say so? Forgive me if I won't take you're word for it. :lamo:lamo:lamo

randel · Aug 29, 2013

Conservative said:
Obama got 2 million fewer votes than he got in 2008 and won the election because conservatives stayed home and he was elected by poor voter turnout. The American people dependent on liberalism voted in numbers and minorities voted for him because he was black. You supported him because you bought the rhetoric.

As for my doctor, he didn't go into business to take care of me, he became a doctor to take care of his family. I dropped traditional Medicare and will keep him as my doctor. You are very naive, gullible, and misinformed. If you care so much about everyone else what are you doing to personally help those in need. Want to compare contributions to charity? Yours is the typical leftwing false narrative where spending in the name of compassion is all that matters, not compassionate results.

why is it that every time someone disagrees with you, they are ' naive, gullible, and misinformed'? ever consider that maybe it is you who are all 3? and pray tell, what does what boo gives to charity have to do with this discussion? are you going to pony up personal records documenting how much you give? stick to the topic at hand.

Boo Radley · Aug 29, 2013

Conservative said:
Yes, and you would reward the bureaucrats in D.C. by giving them access to more money to do more of the same.

As you reward others for more of the same as well. :roll:

But for me, no. I reward the actual fact that seniors are better off.

randel · Aug 29, 2013

Conservative said:
Obama got 2 million fewer votes than he got in 2008 and won the election because conservatives stayed home and he was elected by poor voter turnout. The American people dependent on liberalism voted in numbers and minorities voted for him because he was black. You supported him because you bought the rhetoric.

As for my doctor, he didn't go into business to take care of me, he became a doctor to take care of his family. I dropped traditional Medicare and will keep him as my doctor. You are very naive, gullible, and misinformed. If you care so much about everyone else what are you doing to personally help those in need. Want to compare contributions to charity? Yours is the typical leftwing false narrative where spending in the name of compassion is all that matters, not compassionate results.

your boy lost because he sucked arse as a candidate, he was seriously out of touch with the electorate.

Conservative · Aug 29, 2013

randel said:
why is it that every time someone disagrees with you, they are ' naive, gullible, and misinformed'? ever consider that maybe it is you who are all 3? and pray tell, what does what boo gives to charity have to do with this discussion? are you going to pony up personal records documenting how much you give? stick to the topic at hand.

Did you ever come up with that acceptable site that you will believe?

Conservative · Aug 29, 2013

randel said:
your boy lost because he sucked arse as a candidate, he was seriously out of touch with the electorate.

"Your" "boy" sucks as a President but people like you buy the rhetoric and ignore the substance. Let me know what site you believe so I can see how that site disagrees with the data I post?

randel · Aug 29, 2013

Conservative said:
"Your" "boy" sucks as a President but people like you buy the rhetoric and ignore the substance. Let me know what site you believe so I can see how that site disagrees with the data I post?

apparently enough people believed we are on the right track, that he was re-elected by a convincing margin.

Conservative · Aug 29, 2013

randel said:
apparently enough people believed we are on the right track, that he was re-elected by a convincing margin.

He got 2 million fewer votes in 2012 than 2008 and the turnout was worse. still waiting for the site that you believe because apparently BLS.gov, BEA.gov, and the U.S. Treasury haven't made your list as quality sites for accurate data even though we pay debt service on treasury data

Boo Radley · Aug 29, 2013

Conservative said:
He got 2 million fewer votes in 2012 than 2008 and the turnout was worse. still waiting for the site that you believe because apparently BLS.gov, BEA.gov, and the U.S. Treasury haven't made your list as quality sites for accurate data even though we pay debt service on treasury data

Nothing wrong with those sites. What's wrong is how badly you misread them. But we've covered that many, many times before. :coffeepap