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Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

Conservative said:
What you are seeing here is typical liberalism where liberals cannot sell their ideas to the people of their state and thus want the Federal Govt. to force a national program to do it for them. The one size fits all program liberals love to promote ignores history as well as personal responsibilities. Liberals love to social engineer and throw more money at the problem as long as it is someone else's. Healthcare is indeed a problem but it is a local problem due to local costs and local social issues and to have the Federal Govt. implement a program on a national scale would be a disaster.
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And as usual, instead of addressing the problem they make emotional appeals. Thats the kind of leadership you get from liberals. Rand Paul makes a logical argument for freedom and personal responsibility, and how govt interference makes things worse. The governor has a pity party.
 
jonny5 said:
And as usual, instead of addressing the problem they make emotional appeals. Thats the kind of leadership you get from liberals. Rand Paul makes a logical argument for freedom and personal responsibility, and how govt interference makes things worse. The governor has a pity party.
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How do you think liberals keep getting elected, they buy votes by making promises and appealing to the heart and not the brain. With the low voter turnout those who are dependent are the ones showing up to vote in larger numbers and thus we get a dependent society that makes the liberal elite proud. I like your term, "the pity party" because that is appropriate. Appeal to people's hearts and never focus on the terrible results.
 
jonny5 said:
And as usual, instead of addressing the problem they make emotional appeals. Thats the kind of leadership you get from liberals. Rand Paul makes a logical argument for freedom and personal responsibility, and how govt interference makes things worse. The governor has a pity party.
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As usual, hysterical stereotyping as apposed to addressing the PROBLEMS. The two major problems with healthcare are access and cost. Having a hodge podge system lends itself to costing more. What cost saving possible with ACA will come in market innovation, which is encouraged. However, more insured does create more and better access. So, it addresses one problem better than the other.

But as best I can tell, the majority of the public is not willing to either of the things that would control costs: deny treatment or UHC. Of the two, I prefer UHC. But if you don't choose one or some serious restrictions of some kind, we will continue to lead the world in costs.

Now, I haven't talk with you that much, but if you dance around like conservative, your next response will not address these, but merely talk about liberal and how lost they are. :coffeepap
 
Boo Radley said:
As usual, hysterical stereotyping as apposed to addressing the PROBLEMS. The two major problems with healthcare are access and cost. Having a hodge podge system lends itself to costing more. What cost saving possible with ACA will come in market innovation, which is encouraged. However, more insured does create more and better access. So, it addresses one problem better than the other.

But as best I can tell, the majority of the public is not willing to either of the things that would control costs: deny treatment or UHC. Of the two, I prefer UHC. But if you don't choose one or some serious restrictions of some kind, we will continue to lead the world in costs.

Now, I haven't talk with you that much, but if you dance around like conservative, your next response will not address these, but merely talk about liberal and how lost they are. :coffeepap
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The problem currently is not ACCESS because everyone has access to healthcare either through ER or using Medicaid or other State program. You keep claiming that cost is a problem but since you don't pay healthcare costs in the State of TX why are you concerned? What is it about ACA that benefits you and your family? You cannot seem to address the problem in your own state and now want a Federal entitlement program to do it for you. As has been pointed out ignored single payer programs at the national level have only given the bureaucrats more money to spend and waste creating greater debt and entitlements.

You want a UHC, then do it in your state, not force a Federal Program on others or at least put it on the ballot and let the people not the politicians decide
 
Boo Radley said:
As usual, hysterical stereotyping as apposed to addressing the PROBLEMS. The two major problems with healthcare are access and cost. Having a hodge podge system lends itself to costing more. What cost saving possible with ACA will come in market innovation, which is encouraged. However, more insured does create more and better access. So, it addresses one problem better than the other.

But as best I can tell, the majority of the public is not willing to either of the things that would control costs: deny treatment or UHC. Of the two, I prefer UHC. But if you don't choose one or some serious restrictions of some kind, we will continue to lead the world in costs.

Now, I haven't talk with you that much, but if you dance around like conservative, your next response will not address these, but merely talk about liberal and how lost they are. :coffeepap
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Ironic ad hominem is ironic.
 
Conservative said:
What you are seeing here is typical liberalism where liberals cannot sell their ideas to the people of their state and thus want the Federal Govt. to force a national program to do it for them. The one size fits all program liberals love to promote ignores history as well as personal responsibilities. Liberals love to social engineer and throw more money at the problem as long as it is someone else's. Healthcare is indeed a problem but it is a local problem due to local costs and local social issues and to have the Federal Govt. implement a program on a national scale would be a disaster.
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Exactly, but its a lost cause. Emotional appeals about taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor will always buy more votes than telling someone no. And the Republican are only slight less bad. They simply appeal to the people who care more about winning, even if they their brand of socialism is only slight less evil. We're all really just stalling.
 
Conservative said:
The problem currently is not ACCESS because everyone has access to healthcare either through ER or using Medicaid or other State program. You keep claiming that cost is a problem but since you don't pay healthcare costs in the State of TX why are you concerned? What is it about ACA that benefits you and your family? You cannot seem to address the problem in your own state and now want a Federal entitlement program to do it for you. As has been pointed out ignored single payer programs at the national level have only given the bureaucrats more money to spend and waste creating greater debt and entitlements.

You want a UHC, then do it in your state, not force a Federal Program on others or at least put it on the ballot and let the people not the politicians decide
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The ER is mos expensive and hardly real access. You may want to investigate that a little more. I cna link these things again if you want.
 
Boo Radley said:
The ER is mos expensive and hardly real access. You may want to investigate that a little more. I cna link these things again if you want.
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The ER's are what you are going to get when you add 14-30 million people to insurance and cannot offer them services through doctors. That is what is happening in MA and nothing in Obamacare prevents that from happening in a National program. You seem to want to ignore the issue that healthcare is a personal responsibility best handled at the state and local levels. Healthcare costs for the uninsured are handled mostly by the taxpayers of the state which should be incentive if it were a real problem for the people of the states to implement what you want so why don't you get a UHC in your own state and stop looking for the Federal Taxpayer to fund your healthcare?
 
calamity said:
Sorry, I'm not in fear of little brown men crossing the Rio Grande to come take my job. The militarization of our Southern Border is proof that the Right has run amok. Racist pigs.

Funny, no one talks of building a fence along the line with Canada.
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Wow, I didn't realize that Canadians were sneaking across the border. Thanks for pointing it out.
 
Conservative said:
The ER's are what you are going to get when you add 14-30 million people to insurance and cannot offer them services through doctors. That is what is happening in MA and nothing in Obamacare prevents that from happening in a National program. You seem to want to ignore the issue that healthcare is a personal responsibility best handled at the state and local levels. Healthcare costs for the uninsured are handled mostly by the taxpayers of the state which should be incentive if it were a real problem for the people of the states to implement what you want so why don't you get a UHC in your own state and stop looking for the Federal Taxpayer to fund your healthcare?
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Nonsense. And I've shown you that already we've started lining up ways to do this. Have some faith in the profession to adjust.
 
Boo Radley said:
Nonsense. And I've shown you that already we've started lining up ways to do this. Have some faith in the profession to adjust.
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No, you are delusional and have no idea what you showed to whom for all you have done is in your own mind using theory. Theory isn't worth the paper it is written on when it comes to govt. programs.

There are no ways to improve patient service without the proper incentive to create more doctors. You really don't understand the free market system at all probably because you cannot compete. Noticed that you continue to ignore the suggestion that you sell UHC to your own state which obviously you cannot do therefore want the Federal Govt. to mandate it, that seems to be the liberal way.
 
Conservative said:
No, you are delusional and have no idea what you showed to whom for all you have done is in your own mind using theory. Theory isn't worth the paper it is written on when it comes to govt. programs.

There are no ways to improve patient service without the proper incentive to create more doctors. You really don't understand the free market system at all probably because you cannot compete. Noticed that you continue to ignore the suggestion that you sell UHC to your own state which obviously you cannot do therefore want the Federal Govt. to mandate it, that seems to be the liberal way.
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No, on another thread we had this discussion before. Other health professionals are picking up the slack. There is more than one way to do this. You're panicking needlessly.

You also don't realize that incentive has not changed. You are simply wrong factually.
 
Boo Radley said:
No, on another thread we had this discussion before. Other health professionals are picking up the slack. There is more than one way to do this. You're panicking needlessly.

You also don't realize that incentive has not changed. You are simply wrong factually.
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No panic at all, I have seen the disaster Medicare is and had the option of opting out which I did. You have nothing to compare your opinion to therefore you rely simply on theory and ignore reality. Still waiting for why you cannot sell your own state on the program rather than require a Federal Program. Why is it my responsibility to pay for your healthcare? I am paying for others in TX so why your state?
 
winston53660 said:
How did you opt out of mrdicare?
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Why do you care since Medicare is such a great program in your world? Fact is I am no longer on Medicare but rather another program where I was able to keep my doctor.
 
Conservative said:
Why do you care since Medicare is such a great program in your world? Fact is I am no longer on Medicare but rather another program where I was able to keep my doctor.
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Because you can not "opt" out of medicare Insurance companies don't offer comprehensive insurance to retired people 65 and older.
 
winston53660 said:
Because you can not "opt" out of medicare Insurance companies don't offer comprehensive insurance to retired people 65 and older.
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Your opinion noted, I have a program other than Medicare and my secondary is my private insurance company. Yes, I was forced onto Medicare, my doctor of 20 plus years doesn't accept Medicare but I still have him as my doctor through a program his company offers. I have no problem with service, quality, and professionalism. No more Medicare minimums and regulations, love it. Cannot wait until others here promoting the single payer actually get to benefit those "great" Medicare benefits.
 
Jeez. Are you guys complaining about Medicare? The best deal of medical insurance? Must be another planet.

HMO, PPO, PFFS and Supplements. From FREE to $180 a month. I took a PPO for $69 a month this year (up by $69 from last year) and most MDs take it.
 
Conservative said:
No problem then, enjoy your Medicare and all the benefits it offers. I am still with my doctor, better tell him he isn't getting paid since he dropped Medicare.
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You still have not opted out of medicare and are still covered by it. At the very least hospitalization is covered. IOW you did not, can not opt out as you claimed.
 
winston53660 said:
You still have not opted out of medicare and are still covered by it. At the very least hospitalization is covered. IOW you did not, can not opt out as you claimed.
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Yes, I did opt out of traditional Medicare and have been able to keep my doctor who doesn't accept traditional Medicare. Not sure what your problem is, you seem happy with it, enjoy it and all the benefits. Let me suffer under my own plan with my own doctor of 20 years. Much cheaper, much better, much lower deductibles. It is amazing what you can do when you do research. Change is never easy especially for people who believe SS and Medicare are such great programs.
 
Conservative said:
No panic at all, I have seen the disaster Medicare is and had the option of opting out which I did. You have nothing to compare your opinion to therefore you rely simply on theory and ignore reality. Still waiting for why you cannot sell your own state on the program rather than require a Federal Program. Why is it my responsibility to pay for your healthcare? I am paying for others in TX so why your state?
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Disaster? Check how the elderly before medicare and how they are now. You must not know what disaster really means. :lamo
 
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