• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

Which government, Federal, State, Local? Please find out what your taxes fund and who you pay those taxes to?

Judging by your last post, you should't talk when it comes to someone needing to find things out.
 
Maybe if you bothered being informed, you wouldn't hold such silly worldviews.

And, that's not including either war, Homeland security and other nicities.

Budget breakdown for 2012

Defense-related expenditure 2012 Budget request & Mandatory spending[22][23] Calculation[24][25]
DOD spending $707.5 billion Base budget + "Overseas Contingency Operations"
FBI counter-terrorism $2.9 billion At least one-third FBI budget.
International Affairs $5.6–$63.0 billion At minimum, foreign arms sales. At most, entire State budget
Energy Department, defense-related $21.8 billion
Veterans Affairs $70.0 billion
Homeland Security $46.9 billion
NASA, satellites $3.5–$8.7 billion Between 20% and 50% of NASA's total budget
Veterans pensions $54.6 billion
Other defense-related mandatory spending $8.2 billion
Interest on debt incurred in past wars $109.1–$431.5 billion Between 23% and 91% of total interest
Total Spending $1.030–$1.415 trillion

Have you ever read the Constitution including the Preamble? What is the role of the Federal Govt? The answer is there. We have a defense budget and if you eliminated the entire budget of course the world would leave us alone and we would never be attacked but the debt would still be high. Is that what you are proposing, eliminating the defense budget?


By the way the Iraq War ended with the Status of Forces Agreement in 2008 so tell me how we had trillion dollar deficits and 6.2 trillion added to the debt every year under the Obama Administration? Thanks for posting the Defense Budget and ignoring that Obama has proposed a 3.77 trillion dollar budget
 
Judging by your last post, you should't talk when it comes to someone needing to find things out.

Unfortunately you don't have a clue. When you buy gasoline what makes up the price of that gasoline? You don't seem to understand the role of the Federal, State, and local governments nor what your taxes fund. Suggest you stop posting until you do or do you not have a problem looking foolish?
 
Have you ever read the Constitution including the Preamble? What is the role of the Federal Govt? The answer is there. We have a defense budget and if you eliminated the entire budget of course the world would leave us alone and we would never be attacked but the debt would still be high. Is that what you are proposing, eliminating the defense budget?


By the way the Iraq War ended with the Status of Forces Agreement in 2008 so tell me how we had trillion dollar deficits and 6.2 trillion added to the debt every year under the Obama Administration? Thanks for posting the Defense Budget and ignoring that Obama has proposed a 3.77 trillion dollar budget

Ah, we have us a strict constitutionalist. Well, seems the game has changed a bit since 1787. I imagine you rather sit in a barn praying the candles stay lit than having modern utilities and high speed transportation. Well, me and about 300,000,000 other people do not.
 
Maybe if you bothered being informed, you wouldn't hold such silly worldviews.

And, that's not including either war, Homeland security and other nicities.

Budget breakdown for 2012

Defense-related expenditure 2012 Budget request & Mandatory spending[22][23] Calculation[24][25]
DOD spending $707.5 billion Base budget + "Overseas Contingency Operations"
FBI counter-terrorism $2.9 billion At least one-third FBI budget.
International Affairs $5.6–$63.0 billion At minimum, foreign arms sales. At most, entire State budget
Energy Department, defense-related $21.8 billion
Veterans Affairs $70.0 billion
Homeland Security $46.9 billion
NASA, satellites $3.5–$8.7 billion Between 20% and 50% of NASA's total budget
Veterans pensions $54.6 billion
Other defense-related mandatory spending $8.2 billion
Interest on debt incurred in past wars $109.1–$431.5 billion Between 23% and 91% of total interest
Total Spending $1.030–$1.415 trillion

Well, this is from the article you posted: "Since 2001, the base defense budget has soared from $287 billion to $530 billion — and that’s before accounting for the primary costs of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars." The total costs for the Iraq war was a little over a trillion over ten plus years. So going back to what you originally posted about the cost then posted in your article, ...fuzzy math. What it looks like to me is, you pulled a number off the top of your head that you heard before, realized the point you were trying to make with the number wasn't quite right, then tried to disguise what you first posted with a published article.
 
There is evidence all around the world that government run medical programs are corrupt, inefficient, slow and more costly. Just open your eyes.

You don't have to go far and you can do the research in English by looking at the mess north of the border. The Supreme Court of Quebec stated waiting lists do not constitute care. Which tells you what? That up to that point government had treated waiting lists as care. What a system... but that's typical of government.

Factually, that's not true. Nearly all of the world has some form of UHC, and they spend far less than we do. You guys cherry pick and often misrepresent information. Both are dishonest tactics.
 
ROTFLOL... oh yes, some things are increasing, but not near the leaps and bounds ObamaKare is causing healthkare to skyrocket.

Yes, and when government is responsible for all these individuals... you better hope you don't have to go through the ObamaKare DMV.

As I said earlier... I bet most Libs and stated you surely chanted "THIS ISN'T SINGLE PAYER", all the time knowing Obamakare is the green ooze meant to slide under the door towards single payer. The thread below with the "single payer" chorus is from 2.5 years ago. BTW, it was an easy find, I just clicked into your name and "single payer"... BINGO!

Single payer suicide has always been your goal and ObamaKare is a mere stepping stone.

Not sure what you're going on about. But this isn't a single payer system, though I don't appose one. Such a system would be an improvement.
 
Ah, we have us a strict constitutionalist. Well, seems the game has changed a bit since 1787. I imagine you rather sit in a barn praying the candles stay lit than having modern utilities and high speed transportation. Well, me and about 300,000,000 other people do not.

Again, no concept of what your taxes fund? You are a liberal elites dream, naive, gullible, poorly informed, and willing to accept the liberal elite rhetoric about spending in the name of compassion. You have no concept of what your taxes fund and willingly accept the fact that the intended use of those funds isn't being realized.

When you go into a gasoline station, you pay Federal and State excise taxes which were created to fund the infrastructure including highways and bridges. Congress and the President have used that as a slush fund for whatever they want and spent the money just like they have done with your SS and Medicare contributions. You want to ignore that and reward that behavior by giving them more money? That is liberalism, thinking with the heart and not the brain.
 
Factually, that's not true. Nearly all of the world has some form of UHC, and they spend far less than we do. You guys cherry pick and often misrepresent information. Both are dishonest tactics.

Then post the wait times in Canada and Britain for us? Post the number of people in both countries? Post the real reason we have such high medical expenses in this country and then explain to us how Obamacare is going to do what the CBO says it won't do, increase costs? You must really benefit personally from Obamacare because no one is this passionate over a program destined for failure.
 
Then post the wait times in Canada and Britain for us? Post the number of people in both countries? Post the real reason we have such high medical expenses in this country and then explain to us how Obamacare is going to do what the CBO says it won't do, increase costs? You must really benefit personally from Obamacare because no one is this passionate over a program destined for failure.

Two things:

1) those are not the only two countries with UHC.

2) I've already posted their wait times and ours. Comparable. Here, rich get seen much faster, and poor less fast. The average is only slightly better than those countries, but only slightly.
 
Two things:

1) those are not the only two countries with UHC.

2) I've already posted their wait times and ours. Comparable. Here, rich get seen much faster, and poor less fast. The average is only slightly better than those countries, but only slightly.

Nobody asserts that giving the poor something paid for by others will not be better for the poor. The question is will it be better for MOST.
 
Two things:

1) those are not the only two countries with UHC.

2) I've already posted their wait times and ours. Comparable. Here, rich get seen much faster, and poor less fast. The average is only slightly better than those countries, but only slightly.

Those are the two closest to having the type economy we have in this country but you are right, neither has 312 million people and 50 independent states. Why do you believe what the govt. is telling you? What benefit do you get out of Obamacare, me paying for your health insurance? Why don't you just send me your address and I will send you a check directly vs sending it to a bureaucrat to spend it for you?
 
Are you saying Canada, England, France, and so on are not free? Don't enjoy basic human rights?

Not at all. Reading is for the mental, I mean, fundamental. You said the US should use a UHC because "most" do; I simply pointed out that the US enjoys much more freedom and human rights than "most" do. Simply because something applies to more nations or to more people does not mean it is "better" it only means that it is more common.
 
I don't know about Joe, but I can't wait until I have to sit on a waiting list for 10 months for a replacement hip....The pain will be exquisite....
 
Again, no concept of what your taxes fund? You are a liberal elites dream, naive, gullible, poorly informed, and willing to accept the liberal elite rhetoric about spending in the name of compassion. You have no concept of what your taxes fund and willingly accept the fact that the intended use of those funds isn't being realized.

When you go into a gasoline station, you pay Federal and State excise taxes which were created to fund the infrastructure including highways and bridges. Congress and the President have used that as a slush fund for whatever they want and spent the money just like they have done with your SS and Medicare contributions. You want to ignore that and reward that behavior by giving them more money? That is liberalism, thinking with the heart and not the brain.

Again, You can't really talk about someone not knowing where the money goes since you had no clue that we spend over a trillion dollars per year on military.
 
Those are the two closest to having the type economy we have in this country but you are right, neither has 312 million people and 50 independent states. Why do you believe what the govt. is telling you? What benefit do you get out of Obamacare, me paying for your health insurance? Why don't you just send me your address and I will send you a check directly vs sending it to a bureaucrat to spend it for you?
No, it's a cherry picking and misrepresenting. Not only that, France is just as similar, and they rank rather well.

Look at their costs:

But it is not as expensive as the U.S. system, which is the world's most costly. The United States spends about twice as much as France on health care. In 2005, U.S. spending came to $6,400 per person. In France, it was $3,300.

Health Care Lessons From France : NPR

You also misrepresent in suggesting health care is the reason countries are going broke. Often it is other issues that are dragging the country down. In some cases our own financial mess and idea of predatory lending reached overseas. But the fact remains, they spend less. Ad you never answered why you don't want more of your money.
 
I don't know about Joe, but I can't wait until I have to sit on a waiting list for 10 months for a replacement hip....The pain will be exquisite....

If you don't have the money or coverage here, see how long you wait.
 
I don't know about Joe, but I can't wait until I have to sit on a waiting list for 10 months for a replacement hip....The pain will be exquisite....

I don't think Joe is this naive and gullible but maybe I am wrong. Not sure what benefit he personally gets out of Obamacare but he sure is passionate about the topic, totally ignorant of history and reality but passionate.
 
Well, this is from the article you posted: "Since 2001, the base defense budget has soared from $287 billion to $530 billion — and that’s before accounting for the primary costs of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars." The total costs for the Iraq war was a little over a trillion over ten plus years. So going back to what you originally posted about the cost then posted in your article, ...fuzzy math. What it looks like to me is, you pulled a number off the top of your head that you heard before, realized the point you were trying to make with the number wasn't quite right, then tried to disguise what you first posted with a published article.

Nonsense. I said we spend over a trillion dollars per year on the military, which the facts I cited bear out.
 
If you don't have the money or coverage here, see how long you wait.

If you don't have the money for the procedure, then it is quite possible that you have Medicaid and will still not wait 10 months...
 
Not at all. Reading is for the mental, I mean, fundamental. You said the US should use a UHC because "most" do; I simply pointed out that the US enjoys much more freedom and human rights than "most" do. Simply because something applies to more nations or to more people does not mean it is "better" it only means that it is more common.
Perhaps I should have said most of the free world, as that too would be true. It really isn't a matter of freedom. No where has UHC really harmed freedom at all. I think this is largely a false notion. A person who is ill and can't get care other than emergency care isn't free. They're ill. Is like your house burning down and some patting you on the back and saying well at least you're free while they watch it burn down, and spas to the next house and the next. A fire department would have certainly been better. And like a fire department, you can have this and not lose freedom.
 
Nonsense. I said we spend over a trillion dollars per year on the military, which the facts I cited bear out.

And we have a 3.77 trillion dollar budget request in by Obama. It is the role of the Federal Govt. to PROVIDE FOR THE COMMON DEFENSE and that means the military. Now maybe a 700 billion dollar military is too much but that is what Obama proposed so how much of that 700 billion would you cut and what would that do to the 1.2 trillion dollar average Obama deficit?
 
I don't think Joe is this naive and gullible but maybe I am wrong. Not sure what benefit he personally gets out of Obamacare but he sure is passionate about the topic, totally ignorant of history and reality but passionate.

My guess is that Joe doesn't get any benefit from Obamacare, and doesn't want to include himself in that program...But finds no problem forcing others into it....Much like Congress.
 
Back
Top Bottom