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Thread: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    About the Journal:

    The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons is not listed in major academic literature databases such as MEDLINE/PubMed[45] nor the Web of Science.[46] The U.S. National Library of Medicine declined repeated requests from AAPS to index the journal, citing unspecified concerns.[1] Articles and commentaries published in the journal have argued a number of non-mainstream or scientifically discredited claims,[1] including:
    that human activity has not contributed to climate change, and that global warming will be beneficial and thus not a cause for concern;[47]
    that HIV does not cause AIDS;[48][49]
    that the "gay male lifestyle" shortens life expectancy by 20 years.[50]
    A series of articles by pro-life authors published in the journal argued for a link between abortion and breast cancer.[51][52] Such a link has been rejected by the scientific community, including the U.S. National Cancer Institute,[53] the American Cancer Society,[54] and the World Health Organization,[55] among other major medical bodies.[56]
    A 2003 paper published in the journal, claiming that vaccination was harmful, was criticized for poor methodology, lack of scientific rigor, and outright errors by the World Health Organization[57] and the American Academy of Pediatrics.[58] A National Public Radio piece mentioned inaccurate information published in the Journal and said: "The journal itself is not considered a leading publication, as it's put out by an advocacy group that opposes most government involvement in medical care."[59]
    The Journal has also published articles advocating politically and socially conservative policy positions[citation needed], including:
    that the Food and Drug Administration and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services are unconstitutional;[60]
    that "humanists" have conspired to replace the "creation religion of Jehovah" with evolution;[61]
    that "anchor babies" are valuable to undocumented immigrants, particularly if the babies are disabled.[1]
    Quackwatch lists JPandS as an untrustworthy, non-recommended periodical.[62] An editorial in Chemical & Engineering News described JPandS as a "purveyor of utter nonsense."[63] Investigative journalist Brian Deer wrote that the journal is the "house magazine of a right-wing American fringe group [AAPS]" and "is barely credible as an independent forum."[64]
    Leprosy error[edit source | editbeta]
    In a 2005 article published in the Journal, Madeleine Cosman argued that illegal immigrants were carriers of disease, and that immigrants and "anchor babies" were launching a "stealthy assault on [American] medicine."[65] In the article, Cosman claimed that "Suddenly, in the past 3 years America has more than 7,000 cases of leprosy" because of illegal aliens.[65] The journal's leprosy claim was cited and repeated by Lou Dobbs as evidence of the dangers of illegal immigration.[59][66]
    However, publicly available statistics show that the 7,000 cases of leprosy occurred during the past 30 years, not the past three as Cosman claimed.[67] James L. Krahenbuhl, director of the U.S. government's leprosy program, stated that there had been no significant increase in leprosy cases, and that "It [leprosy] is not a public health problem—that’s the bottom line."[66] National Public Radio reported that the Journal article "had footnotes that did not readily support allegations linking a recent rise in leprosy rates to illegal immigrants."[59] The article's erroneous leprosy claim was pointed out by 60 Minutes,[68] National Public Radio,[59] and the New York Times[66] but has not been corrected by the Journal.[citation needed]

    Association of American Physicians and Surgeons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    So wait a minute Winston...Let me get this straight...The Journal is dismissed, mocked, and discredited by strongly liberal outlets, and Wiki, a source that is open to manipulation from anyone with an agenda posts it as fact so it must be? Is that your stance?

    If I tried that, liberals would be all over me attacking my credibility...So, explain why I should trust Wiki on this other than to see that liberals hate the Journal?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What does any of that have to do with the historical results of single payer systems like Medicare and SS or the historical data on wait times in countries that have a single payer healthcare system? Most liberal social programs sound good but fail miserably, costing more than intended and doing less than intended unless you believe access is more important than service or quality.
    I checked into your source to see if it was even worth considering. It obviously in't.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I checked into your source to see if it was even worth considering. It obviously in't.
    Yes, because Wiki, 60 minutes, NPR, and the NYTimes says so.....Really?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I checked into your source to see if it was even worth considering. It obviously in't.
    My source is the U.S. Treasury that shows Medicare and SS unfunded in the amount of trillions. My source is Canadian and British Heathcare publications showing wait times. My source is the Boston Globe that shows higher costs, higher wait times, and massive increases in ER usage.

    You seem to have no problem giving a govt. that has amassed a 17 trillion dollar debt, never implemented a social program that cost what it was supposed to cost another entitlement program which does nothing but give them greater control and more money to spend. If you are wrong we are screwed and history says you are wrong.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    My source is the U.S. Treasury that shows Medicare and SS unfunded in the amount of trillions. My source is Canadian and British Heathcare publications showing wait times. My source is the Boston Globe that shows higher costs, higher wait times, and massive increases in ER usage.

    You seem to have no problem giving a govt. that has amassed a 17 trillion dollar debt, never implemented a social program that cost what it was supposed to cost another entitlement program which does nothing but give them greater control and more money to spend. If you are wrong we are screwed and history says you are wrong.
    Then why do you post this link:

    Because unlike you and others I see the disadvantages of a single payer system as outlined in the following:

    Health Care Quality: Would It Survive a Single-Payer System?

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Then why do you post this link:
    Why? because it confirms the numbers and information I have posted in the past, information that you ignore all because you want to believe liberal rhetoric for how could any liberal lie to you for personal gain?

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Why? because it confirms the numbers and information I have posted in the past, information that you ignore all because you want to believe liberal rhetoric for how could any liberal lie to you for personal gain?
    Your source is not worth the effort.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Your source is not worth the effort.
    I understand, the Treasury Dept. showing Debt never bothers a liberal. Real numbers showing wait times don't matter either because ideology and your feelings always will trump reality.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Because the definition of Centrist is someone who doesn't support the shifting of this country to either the left or the right and it is obvious to anyone that Obama's agenda is to transform America strongly to the left as evidenced by his economic policies and his rhetoric promoting social justice and demonizing the producers in this country.
    Agreeing with one side on a particular issue doesn't mean shifting the country. We're not really divided down the middle to left and right. it's largely a false line. Instead, most are left on this issue and right on that. The lean is merely a lean, not a full bore commitment. Ideologues are poisoned by the belief that its us versus them. We may disagree on issues, but it is hyperbolic and poisonous the world to so strongly hate those who disagree with you.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I spent over a decade watching them first hand in Africa. They are the most cost effective organization in the USG.
    That subjective. I was simply correcting the facts, that they are a social program and they have no waste or abuse.

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