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Thread: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Who says he hasn't? Maybe he understands better than you do?
    Because the definition of Centrist is someone who doesn't support the shifting of this country to either the left or the right and it is obvious to anyone that Obama's agenda is to transform America strongly to the left as evidenced by his economic policies and his rhetoric promoting social justice and demonizing the producers in this country.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    That may be, because we have a lot of low information voters and Thoreau was correct when he observed that most men have the souls of slaves. If they stopped to think, however, they might realize that anyone who works pays a lot of attention to the interests of whoever signs the paycheck. If I need medical care, I prefer that the providers know that they are responsible to me rather than some bureaucrat with no interest in my health.
    But insurance companies aren't interested in your health either, they are interested in maximising profits. Fact is, the US system doesn't come out well when compared to single payer systems.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Wrong, a true centrist would look at the record and make a judgment according and since Obama has a leftwing record or no record at all, no centrist could ever vote for Obama. He is a far left ideologue and evidenced by his voting record and performance.
    Ha! 99% of Europeans/Canadians/Australians would laugh at the idea of Obama being far left.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr X View Post
    But insurance companies aren't interested in your health either, they are interested in maximising profits. Fact is, the US system doesn't come out well when compared to single payer systems.
    Socialists are only interested in one thing, spending someone else's money and we don't have a lot of it to spend any more. Too many people compare the U.S. to other countries when it comes to healthcare and there is no proof that the comparison items are equal in anyway. The U.S. is an open society whereas most other countries have a controlled media thus a controlled message. Sorry but access doesn't guarantee service or quality and in fact will hurt service and quality by throwing more people into the system along with forcing people who have no interest in having healthcare into the system.

    There isn't a successful socialist country in the world unless you define success by govt. control and dictation of services to the public. High debt, high unemployment, long wait times, stagnant economic growth plague every socialist country in the world. Why would you want that record here

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr X View Post
    Ha! 99% of Europeans/Canadians/Australians would laugh at the idea of Obama being far left.

    Your opinion noted but doubt you know 99% of Europeans/Canadians/Australians. The Obama record is far left, high unemployment, low economic growth, high debt, and high dependence govt. programs.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Socialists are only interested in one thing, spending someone else's money and we don't have a lot of it to spend any more. Too many people compare the U.S. to other countries when it comes to healthcare and there is no proof that the comparison items are equal in anyway. The U.S. is an open society whereas most other countries have a controlled media thus a controlled message. Sorry but access doesn't guarantee service or quality and in fact will hurt service and quality by throwing more people into the system along with forcing people who have no interest in having healthcare into the system.

    There isn't a successful socialist country in the world unless you define success by govt. control and dictation of services to the public. High debt, high unemployment, long wait times, stagnant economic growth plague every socialist country in the world. Why would you want that record here
    most Western developed nations have a free media. I really don't understand why you are opposed to single payer. You would pay less for health coverage, it wouldn't be any worse, and everyone would be covered.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr X View Post
    most Western developed nations have a free media. I really don't understand why you are opposed to single payer. You would pay less for health coverage, it wouldn't be any worse, and everyone would be covered.
    Because a single payer system everywhere in the world drives up costs due to the limited services available which forces people into ER thus overcrowding. Medicare is trillions of dollars in unfunded liabilities and nothing the govt. does is efficient, cost effective, and successful in doing anything but buying votes.

    Why would anyone support another entitlement program fun by a govt. with a 17 trillion dollar debt?

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr X View Post
    most Western developed nations have a free media. I really don't understand why you are opposed to single payer. You would pay less for health coverage, it wouldn't be any worse, and everyone would be covered.
    Because unlike you and others I see the disadvantages of a single payer system as outlined in the following:

    Health Care Quality: Would It Survive a Single-Payer System?

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Because unlike you and others I see the disadvantages of a single payer system as outlined in the following:

    Health Care Quality: Would It Survive a Single-Payer System?
    About the Journal:

    The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons is not listed in major academic literature databases such as MEDLINE/PubMed[45] nor the Web of Science.[46] The U.S. National Library of Medicine declined repeated requests from AAPS to index the journal, citing unspecified concerns.[1] Articles and commentaries published in the journal have argued a number of non-mainstream or scientifically discredited claims,[1] including:
    that human activity has not contributed to climate change, and that global warming will be beneficial and thus not a cause for concern;[47]
    that HIV does not cause AIDS;[48][49]
    that the "gay male lifestyle" shortens life expectancy by 20 years.[50]
    A series of articles by pro-life authors published in the journal argued for a link between abortion and breast cancer.[51][52] Such a link has been rejected by the scientific community, including the U.S. National Cancer Institute,[53] the American Cancer Society,[54] and the World Health Organization,[55] among other major medical bodies.[56]
    A 2003 paper published in the journal, claiming that vaccination was harmful, was criticized for poor methodology, lack of scientific rigor, and outright errors by the World Health Organization[57] and the American Academy of Pediatrics.[58] A National Public Radio piece mentioned inaccurate information published in the Journal and said: "The journal itself is not considered a leading publication, as it's put out by an advocacy group that opposes most government involvement in medical care."[59]
    The Journal has also published articles advocating politically and socially conservative policy positions[citation needed], including:
    that the Food and Drug Administration and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services are unconstitutional;[60]
    that "humanists" have conspired to replace the "creation religion of Jehovah" with evolution;[61]
    that "anchor babies" are valuable to undocumented immigrants, particularly if the babies are disabled.[1]
    Quackwatch lists JPandS as an untrustworthy, non-recommended periodical.[62] An editorial in Chemical & Engineering News described JPandS as a "purveyor of utter nonsense."[63] Investigative journalist Brian Deer wrote that the journal is the "house magazine of a right-wing American fringe group [AAPS]" and "is barely credible as an independent forum."[64]
    Leprosy error[edit source | editbeta]
    In a 2005 article published in the Journal, Madeleine Cosman argued that illegal immigrants were carriers of disease, and that immigrants and "anchor babies" were launching a "stealthy assault on [American] medicine."[65] In the article, Cosman claimed that "Suddenly, in the past 3 years America has more than 7,000 cases of leprosy" because of illegal aliens.[65] The journal's leprosy claim was cited and repeated by Lou Dobbs as evidence of the dangers of illegal immigration.[59][66]
    However, publicly available statistics show that the 7,000 cases of leprosy occurred during the past 30 years, not the past three as Cosman claimed.[67] James L. Krahenbuhl, director of the U.S. government's leprosy program, stated that there had been no significant increase in leprosy cases, and that "It [leprosy] is not a public health problem—that’s the bottom line."[66] National Public Radio reported that the Journal article "had footnotes that did not readily support allegations linking a recent rise in leprosy rates to illegal immigrants."[59] The article's erroneous leprosy claim was pointed out by 60 Minutes,[68] National Public Radio,[59] and the New York Times[66] but has not been corrected by the Journal.[citation needed]

    Association of American Physicians and Surgeons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    About the Journal:

    The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons is not listed in major academic literature databases such as MEDLINE/PubMed[45] nor the Web of Science.[46] The U.S. National Library of Medicine declined repeated requests from AAPS to index the journal, citing unspecified concerns.[1] Articles and commentaries published in the journal have argued a number of non-mainstream or scientifically discredited claims,[1] including:
    that human activity has not contributed to climate change, and that global warming will be beneficial and thus not a cause for concern;[47]
    that HIV does not cause AIDS;[48][49]
    that the "gay male lifestyle" shortens life expectancy by 20 years.[50]
    A series of articles by pro-life authors published in the journal argued for a link between abortion and breast cancer.[51][52] Such a link has been rejected by the scientific community, including the U.S. National Cancer Institute,[53] the American Cancer Society,[54] and the World Health Organization,[55] among other major medical bodies.[56]
    A 2003 paper published in the journal, claiming that vaccination was harmful, was criticized for poor methodology, lack of scientific rigor, and outright errors by the World Health Organization[57] and the American Academy of Pediatrics.[58] A National Public Radio piece mentioned inaccurate information published in the Journal and said: "The journal itself is not considered a leading publication, as it's put out by an advocacy group that opposes most government involvement in medical care."[59]
    The Journal has also published articles advocating politically and socially conservative policy positions[citation needed], including:
    that the Food and Drug Administration and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services are unconstitutional;[60]
    that "humanists" have conspired to replace the "creation religion of Jehovah" with evolution;[61]
    that "anchor babies" are valuable to undocumented immigrants, particularly if the babies are disabled.[1]
    Quackwatch lists JPandS as an untrustworthy, non-recommended periodical.[62] An editorial in Chemical & Engineering News described JPandS as a "purveyor of utter nonsense."[63] Investigative journalist Brian Deer wrote that the journal is the "house magazine of a right-wing American fringe group [AAPS]" and "is barely credible as an independent forum."[64]
    Leprosy error[edit source | editbeta]
    In a 2005 article published in the Journal, Madeleine Cosman argued that illegal immigrants were carriers of disease, and that immigrants and "anchor babies" were launching a "stealthy assault on [American] medicine."[65] In the article, Cosman claimed that "Suddenly, in the past 3 years America has more than 7,000 cases of leprosy" because of illegal aliens.[65] The journal's leprosy claim was cited and repeated by Lou Dobbs as evidence of the dangers of illegal immigration.[59][66]
    However, publicly available statistics show that the 7,000 cases of leprosy occurred during the past 30 years, not the past three as Cosman claimed.[67] James L. Krahenbuhl, director of the U.S. government's leprosy program, stated that there had been no significant increase in leprosy cases, and that "It [leprosy] is not a public health problem—that’s the bottom line."[66] National Public Radio reported that the Journal article "had footnotes that did not readily support allegations linking a recent rise in leprosy rates to illegal immigrants."[59] The article's erroneous leprosy claim was pointed out by 60 Minutes,[68] National Public Radio,[59] and the New York Times[66] but has not been corrected by the Journal.[citation needed]

    Association of American Physicians and Surgeons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    What does any of that have to do with the historical results of single payer systems like Medicare and SS or the historical data on wait times in countries that have a single payer healthcare system? Most liberal social programs sound good but fail miserably, costing more than intended and doing less than intended unless you believe access is more important than service or quality.

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