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Thread: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    kalm down.
    kouldn't help but notice.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    And thats really the debate that we havent had yet. Whether the govt has the power to spend taxmoney on healthcare, and whether the states would even vote to give them that power. I dont think they do. The federal govt does not pay for people to have water, food (generally), housing (generally), or clothing. Why is healthcare different?
    Oh, liberals like calamity (he's a liberal...even if he does call himself a centrist) don't want to have that debate...they just want it to happen. And they don't mind it if their chosen politicians enact something like Obamacare. You see, they know...just like Reid knows...that it's just a step toward getting the government control of the country's health care system that they desire.

    But don't worry, they'll work on water, food and the rest of it in due course.
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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I stripped out all the misdirection gobbledegook because I want to address this one small part of your post that interests me.

    A couple of questions for you:

    1. Do you think that people do not have access to affordable health care? Is there someone...somewhere...telling a person who has the money and wants to buy some health care that they can't have it?

    2. What do you consider affordable? Do you think someone who earns minimum wage and has a family of four should be able to have health care when he has no means to pay for it? Or do you want that health care to cost something next to zero so he can afford it?

    3. Do you think the government should provide the health care that guy wants? If so, where does the government get the money to pay for it? And what happens if the government doesn't have the money? Does the government then restrict the health care that guy gets? Or would you rather the government just borrow more money or print more money?
    1. At a cost of $6K to 15k for insuring a family, I'd say that's pretty easy to answer. No. Most people do not have access to affordable healthcare, and it has become a huge burden on businesses to provide health insurance to their employees.

    2. Affordable would be free healthcare paid for by taxes.

    3. Cutting wasteful spending on border security we don't need and building additional aircraft carrier groups on top of the 10 or so we already have would go a long way toward helping to pay the cost.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Oh, liberals like calamity (he's a liberal...even if he does call himself a centrist) don't want to have that debate...they just want it to happen. And they don't mind it if their chosen politicians enact something like Obamacare. You see, they know...just like Reid knows...that it's just a step toward getting the government control of the country's health care system that they desire.

    But don't worry, they'll work on water, food and the rest of it in due course.
    Water is a public resource. If you want privatized water, see how well that worked out for Texas.
    A Texan tragedy: Plenty of oil, but no water | The Raw Story

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by wbcoleman View Post
    TRICARE is indistinguishable from Medicare. For people who have both, TRICARE is simply Medicare supplemental insurance.
    End care is not the same thing. TRICARE includes a healthcare option where you go to a government hospital, see a government doctor, and get government own drugs. The means of production of healthcare is government owned. MEDICARE doesn't have this.

    If people were actually afraid of Socialized Healthcare, they'd be first calling to turn TRICARE entirely private. You don't see this. Because they're hypocrites. Or stupid. Or ignorant.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Problem is wingnuts are so far gone they think anyone believing that global warming is real and that terrorists plots to destroy America are not is considered a bleeding heart liberal. And, if you think that people should have access to affordable healthcare and a right to collectively bargain, you're downright a Commie. So, of course a Centrist appears to them to be on the Far Left.
    So then ... just to level-set ... from your list ... we have ...

    1. GW
    2. Islamofacism seeking to destroy the West
    3. Obamacare
    4. Unions


    Where do you stand on those?

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Oh, liberals like calamity (he's a liberal...even if he does call himself a centrist) ...
    You're not kidding.
    Easy to spot but I'm still uncertain whether they all know it themselves.
    But I'm thinking ... yeah, they really know it but they think calling themselves "Centrist" gives them some kind of broodingly pensive cachet.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    2. single payer healthcare is socialist because it operates on a system where the rich pay more for the same service (and then dont use it because they pay for better private care anyway), so its wealth redistribution. and since the govt heavily regulates healthcare under this system (and owns most of the hospitals), its effectively govt control of production
    3. ACA is a step towards single payer - duh
    Single payer doesn't necessitate that government owns the hospitals, employes the doctors and makes the drugs. Fundamentally, single payer is merely a payment conduit. Furthermore, if your sole real measure of socialism is regulation, then banks are Socialist as they're heavily regulated. Insurance as well. Frankly anything that's "heavily" (whatever that means) is therefore Socialist. Furthermore, single payer can incorporate private insurance within it and any extras are supplemental, thus suggesting that the rich won't do what you claim.

    People need to stop defining words as they please and start using the words as they actually mean.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Which is why I dont support majority rule. Or even 60% majorities. Significant changes should have nearly unanimous support, not just one party support.
    California shows this doesn't work. Super majorities can be disrupted by a relative few people. Your idea only works if everyone is rational and everyone doesn't have ulterior motives that cause them to prioritize their own beneficial gains over the objective evidence. Thus, your idea is essentially as effective as Communism.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbabgone View Post
    You're not kidding.
    Easy to spot but I'm still uncertain whether they all know it themselves.
    But I'm thinking ... yeah, they really know it but they think calling themselves "Centrist" gives them some kind of broodingly pensive cachet.
    I really like "broodlingly pensive cachet". I just figured they hate everybody equally, including themselves. I'm learning.

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