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Thread: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by wbcoleman View Post
    There is a well-developed economic theory of exhaustible resources. Obviously one needs to develop alternatives to resources which will be exhausted in, say, a year. But, a century? Five centuries? In a nutshell, prices tell us when to start exploring for alternatives. And so long as prices for the incumbent resources are far below those of the alternatives, we stick with the existing supply.
    yeah, but when oil starts getting scarce, it's going to be pretty bad if we don't have something else developed. it will also continue to be bloody. sitting on our hands and hopping merrily about like the grasshopper in September is poor energy policy. we need to be more like the ant.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i agree that we should also replace the oil-based transportation model, and i would support a NASA-type initiative to push the research and infrastructure expansion. right now, the profit is in oil, so there's little motivation to do the planning that we should be doing right now. oil won't be forever, and we should plan for that.

    we're already providing health care access to everyone, it's delivered in the most stupid and inefficient way possible (emergency room as primary care,) and you're already paying for it. it would be much better to try something else.

    as for your food and clothing analogy, i can buy food or clothes anywhere, and both are relatively inexpensive. plus, i can choose to put off any large purchases. ****, i can grow my own food if i want, and i do. if i need immediate care, though, i have maybe two options, and if i need emergency care, i have about one option. "shopping around" and hospitals having price wars with each other will not and cannot solve this problem.

    we need to look at what the rest of the first world is doing, take the best parts of each program, and custom fit a solution. barring that, we need to just expand medicare to cover everyone. a percentage of the country will cry and scream over it, but in fifty years, they'll get over it and we'll just be a normal first world country with a sane health care system.
    What you, and many, fail to see is the bizarre use of term "insurance" when applied to medical care. Insurance is protection against the rare, unexpected and expensive events in life - not intended to cover routine maintanence. Imagine what auto insurance rates would be if they covered worn tire replcement, oil changes, and tune-ups; or what homeowners/renters insurance would cost if it covered periodic repainting, replacement of worn rugs/furniture and lawn maintanance.

    What folks must understand is that even if you could reduce total US medical care costs from 1/6 of the GDP to 1/10 of GDP that would still be about $5K per person annually or a net tax increase of truely enormous proportions to fund that UHC system.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #53
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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    yeah, but when oil starts getting scarce, it's going to be pretty bad if we don't have something else developed. it will also continue to be bloody. sitting on our hands and hopping merrily about like the grasshopper in September is poor energy policy. we need to be more like the ant.
    The price will rise, that will be the signal. And I don't mean a catastrophic increase at the last moment.
    Zionism is the National Liberation Movement of the Jewish People.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    What you, and many, fail to see is the bizarre use of term "insurance" when applied to medical care. Insurance is protection against the rare, unexpected and expensive events in life - not intended to cover routine maintanence. Imagine what auto insurance rates would be if they covered worn tire replcement, oil changes, and tune-ups; or what homeowners/renters insurance would cost if it covered periodic repainting, replacement of worn rugs/furniture and lawn maintanance.

    What folks must understand is that even if you could reduce total US medical care costs from 1/6 of the GDP to 1/10 of GDP that would still be about $5K per person annually or a net tax increase of truely enormous proportions to fund that UHC system.
    When I was a kid health insurance in the form of BCBS covered catastrophic expenses. Routine treatment was paid out of pocket. Why should medical care be universally prepaid?
    Zionism is the National Liberation Movement of the Jewish People.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by wbcoleman View Post
    When I was a kid health insurance in the form of BCBS covered catastrophic expenses. Routine treatment was paid out of pocket. Why should medical care be universally prepaid?
    My point exactly. What the left wants is simply more income redistribution and gov't dependency/control. PPACA is simply a step in that direction, not in any way designed to reduce overall medical care costs.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You called the OP honest. ROFL. That would be like calling one of your threads honest. "Don't read the actual poll data, just take my word for it, I would never leave out important details" j-mac and his selective outrage strikes again. Clue: the OP contained several insults. Can you find them and bitch about them too?

    Again with the personal attacks eh? Seems a pattern with you.
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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Healthcare System | Gallup Historical Trends

    Capture.JPG

    1. A majority of americans dont want govt run healthcare. So lets forget that myth.
    2. single payer healthcare is socialist because it operates on a system where the rich pay more for the same service (and then dont use it because they pay for better private care anyway), so its wealth redistribution. and since the govt heavily regulates healthcare under this system (and owns most of the hospitals), its effectively govt control of production
    3. ACA is a step towards single payer - duh

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Healthcare System | Gallup Historical Trends

    Capture.JPG

    1. A majority of americans dont want govt run healthcare. So lets forget that myth.
    2. single payer healthcare is socialist because it operates on a system where the rich pay more for the same service (and then dont use it because they pay for better private care anyway), so its wealth redistribution. and since the govt heavily regulates healthcare under this system (and owns most of the hospitals), its effectively govt control of production
    3. ACA is a step towards single payer - duh
    but..... but..... the more we get to know it, the more we'll like it!
    Zionism is the National Liberation Movement of the Jewish People.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    people should have access to affordable healthcare
    I stripped out all the misdirection gobbledegook because I want to address this one small part of your post that interests me.

    A couple of questions for you:

    1. Do you think that people do not have access to affordable health care? Is there someone...somewhere...telling a person who has the money and wants to buy some health care that they can't have it?

    2. What do you consider affordable? Do you think someone who earns minimum wage and has a family of four should be able to have health care when he has no means to pay for it? Or do you want that health care to cost something next to zero so he can afford it?

    3. Do you think the government should provide the health care that guy wants? If so, where does the government get the money to pay for it? And what happens if the government doesn't have the money? Does the government then restrict the health care that guy gets? Or would you rather the government just borrow more money or print more money?
    TANSTAAFL

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    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The majority of campaign contributors and their lobbyists wanted exactly what we got or we would not have it.
    as is the case with most laws.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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