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Thread: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    How would you know if it is inaccurate as you refuse to even research anything that goes against what you believe. Still waiting for the sources that you would believe? Do you believe the Treasury Dept data? How about CBO numbers? Have you bothered to see what the CBO is now scoring Obamacare? Any idea where the doctors are going to come from to service Obamacare? Why are doctors dropping out of Medicare? Why is it you believe the rosy picture painted by liberals regarding a single payer system? Can you not see this is nothing more than a funding program for other liberal programs? 17 trillion in debt, trillions in unfunded liabilities and that isn't enough for you?
    Wo says I don't research? I've given you many links over the years, each more accurate than you give and with them being properly interpreted.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You give me partisan opinion pieces and pass them off as fact. Please tell me how you expect the govt. that has run up a 17 trillion dollar debt, never implemented any social program at the projected costs is going to administer efficiently a program for 312 million Americans?
    No, I haven't. If and when I use an opinion piece, I note it as opinion. But even within the opinion, any facts used have to be accurate before I'll use the opinion.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Libertarian. Never heard of a social contract?
    Of course. We have no such contract in the US which contains the idea of govt existing to take peoples money to invest for them. Now if you would like to offer me one, then bring up an amendment.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Of course. We have no such contract in the US which contains the idea of govt existing to take peoples money to invest for them. Now if you would like to offer me one, then bring up an amendment.
    The Social Contract and Government

    The fundamental basis for government and law in this system is the concept of the social contract, according to which human beings begin as individuals in a state of nature, and create a society by establishing a contract whereby they agree to live together in harmony for their mutual benefit, after which they are said to live in a state of society. This contract involves the retaining of certain natural rights, an acceptance of restrictions of certain liberties, the assumption of certain duties, and the pooling of certain powers to be exercised collectively.

    The social contract is very simple. It has only two basic terms: (1) mutual defense of rights; and (2) mutual decision by deliberative assembly. There are no agents, no officials, that persist from one deliberative assembly to another. The duties of the social contract are militia. There may be customs that persist from assembly to assembly, such as customs for due notice, parliamentary procedure, judicial due process, and enforcement of court orders by militia. This second term could be called the constitution of society, but it precedes a constitution of government and should not be confused with it.

    (Snip)

    Governmental Powers and Duties

    Some critics of social contract theory argue that there are some powers of government that are not derived from powers of the people or delegated to the government by them. However, a careful analysis will show that all powers exercised by government derive either from the people as a whole, or from some subset of the people, or from one person, and that only the first are legitimate. The power to tax? Persons in the state of nature have the power to tax themselves, although they would not ordinarily think of it that way.

    Most written constitutions prescribe the powers delegated to government, but are not always explicit about the duties. It is implied that the government has the duty to exercise its powers wisely and pursuant to the purposes of the social contract. But some persons argue that the power to act is also the power not to act. Could the government choose not to exercise its power to conduct elections, or to defend the country, or to maintain a sound currency, or to organize and train the militias of each state? No. Except in case of emergency, and only for the duration of the emergency, government must exercise the powers delegated to it according to their purposes to the best of its ability. That is its duty. Just as it is the duty of every member of society to exercise his or her powers in service of the community.

    The Social Contract and Constitutional Republics

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Of course. We have no such contract in the US which contains the idea of govt existing to take peoples money to invest for them. Now if you would like to offer me one, then bring up an amendment.
    Federal taxation is in violation of the Fourth Amendment. People just "accept" taxation and judges just keep enforcing taxation because it's how they put food on the table..

    Of course states have taxation legislated into their constitutions.. Apparently our federal government believes they're too "fresh" to legislate tax laws into our constitution...

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Wo says I don't research? I've given you many links over the years, each more accurate than you give and with them being properly interpreted.
    The problem is the taxpayers don't pay debt service on your links, they do on the Treasury data, something you don't understand. What do you think the taxpayers will pay in debt service on a single payer system debt? Think the money for that system grows on trees?

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, I haven't. If and when I use an opinion piece, I note it as opinion. But even within the opinion, any facts used have to be accurate before I'll use the opinion.
    Then provide me the costs of a single payer system and how it will be implemented so it won't add to the debt and will provide better service and care?

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Federal taxation is in violation of the Fourth Amendment. People just "accept" taxation and judges just keep enforcing taxation because it's how they put food on the table..

    Of course states have taxation legislated into their constitutions.. Apparently our federal government believes they're too "fresh" to legislate tax laws into our constitution...
    What makes you think this? I can find anything but nutter groups saying this. I mean, Alex Jones?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The problem is the taxpayers don't pay debt service on your links, they do on the Treasury data, something you don't understand. What do you think the taxpayers will pay in debt service on a single payer system debt? Think the money for that system grows on trees?
    I have done that for you and others already. You would get back you premiums, not taken out of your check, as well as your employers, in return for a 6% tax increase. For most that would mean more money in their pockets. Employers could even afford to pay more, compete better globally, and over all, we'd have better access. And if you choose to buy more, nothing will stop you.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The problem is the taxpayers don't pay debt service on your links, they do on the Treasury data, something you don't understand. What do you think the taxpayers will pay in debt service on a single payer system debt? Think the money for that system grows on trees?
    No one thinks money grows on trees. Y should investigate more.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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