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Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

calamity said:
Plunder you? GMAFB.
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Are you denying that the burdens you place upon society fall mostly on me and those like me? I understand the desire of you and yours to steal, to rape, to plunder your neighbors. You "centrists" are the new slaveholders and your desire to own slaves is very great. If I am coerced into working to meet your needs for one or two days out of every work week what am I if not your slave? I toil and you benefit. Is there a more fitting definition for involuntary servitude, for slavery?

From each according to his abilities, to each according to his need, right?
 
calamity said:
Plunder you? GMAFB.
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Do you realize that all this Spending is in the name of compassion which then justifies it to a liberal even though all that spending really does nothing but make people dependent and causes debt?

Federal programs are ripe with waste, fraud, and abuse but because it is in the name of compassion that makes people feel good about the spending while ignoring the debt generated and dependence created.
 
Conservative said:
Do you realize that all this Spending is in the name of compassion which then justifies it to a liberal even though all that spending really does nothing but make people dependent and causes debt?

Federal programs are ripe with waste, fraud, and abuse but because it is in the name of compassion that makes people feel good about the spending while ignoring the debt generated and dependence created.
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But buying votes using other people's money (via income redistribution programs) is so easy and efficient. The only requirement for it to work well is to have more gov't check getting voters than tax paying voters, thus the reason for making the federal income tax system ever more progressive while adding ever more low income based entitlements. ;)
 
Fisher said:
Depends on how sickly you are. Great tax wise and gets you the preferential rate and allows you to stash away cash upon which you will be drawing interest--the same thing the insurance company does with your money.
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But you can never know in advance. Only hope.
 
Boo Radley said:
But you can never know in advance. Only hope.
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Doesn't matter if you get a few years contributions stashed into your account because there still is a maximum out of pocket on the policies. I bet insurance salesmen love you.
 
zimmer said:
If the government with all its advantages, all its employees, was such a great service provider (and had the full power of government behind it) ... there never would have been a need for FED EX, UPS and all the delivery services that have sprung up and taken a chunk away from the USPS.

Medicare and Medicaid are always in the news for their problems and high costs.
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Hardly, though some of those aren't doing all that well. The change in culture heard regular mail more than anything else.

And lots of things in the private sector are in the news for high costs as well. It actually costs a good bit to care for an aging population. Shocking. Just shocking.
 
Conservative said:
Wow, again, the content of the article is trumped by the source? Brilliant response as usual. Just like a typical liberal ignoring costs and reporting data that cannot be tied to Medicare but more to individual lifestyle changes.

You will never get it so try to comprehend the following, there are 312 million Americans living in this country in 50 sovereign states and you want a program implemented in D.C. for those 312 million people? Medicare is broke so where does the money come from to provide that single payer system but more importantly where do the doctors come from that are willing to work for the Govt? Have you been paying attention at all? How many hospitals are having financial problems due to Medicare? How many doctors have stopped taking Medicare?

What is it about liberalism that makes people unwilling to accept the reality that you could be wrong and if wrong you are destroying the system that makes this country the best in the world?
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You shouldn't use poor sources, as they usually have poor content. I both noted how it was poor, and than rebutted the content.
 
Misterveritis said:
Have you ever wanted to do anything that the government has not already allowed you to do? For example have you ever tried to buy a toilet not designed by a government busybody bureaucrat?

I get the impression that you believe the chains you wear are a fashion statement and not a badge of your complete servitude.
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I called my plumber and had him install a toilet. It works fine. Not seeing a problem here. No chains. No servitude. The plumber didn't even complain.
 
Fisher said:
Doesn't matter if you get a few years contributions stashed into your account because there still is a maximum out of pocket on the policies. I bet insurance salesmen love you.
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Sure they do. And their main business is to collect much more money than they pay out. Not the best idea. But better than simply letting people not get the care. If you're so irresponsible as to not be adequately insured, you're part of the problem.

And keep in mind, a universal insurer takes care of the problem you point at.
 
Misterveritis said:
Are you denying that the burdens you place upon society fall mostly on me and those like me? I understand the desire of you and yours to steal, to rape, to plunder your neighbors. You "centrists" are the new slaveholders and your desire to own slaves is very great. If I am coerced into working to meet your needs for one or two days out of every work week what am I if not your slave? I toil and you benefit. Is there a more fitting definition for involuntary servitude, for slavery?

From each according to his abilities, to each according to his need, right?
Click to expand...
:confused:
 
Conservative said:
Do you realize that all this Spending is in the name of compassion which then justifies it to a liberal even though all that spending really does nothing but make people dependent and causes debt?

Federal programs are ripe with waste, fraud, and abuse but because it is in the name of compassion that makes people feel good about the spending while ignoring the debt generated and dependence created.
Click to expand...
Spending on infrastructure creates jobs; spending on education leads to more people who can then compete in the ever changing world. Both help build a sound nation.

Last I looked, we were in desperate need of an upgraded electrical grid and highways system, high speed trains which compare to those in Asia and Europe, and many more people educated in math and science. You don't think it behooves us as a nation to invest in those things and encourage more kids to learn math and science?
 
Boo Radley said:
Sure they do. And their main business is to collect much more money than they pay out. Not the best idea. But better than simply letting people not get the care. If you're so irresponsible as to not be adequately insured, you're part of the problem.

And keep in mind, a universal insurer takes care of the problem you point at.
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I am adequately insured. there is no difference between a $5K deductible and a $0 deductible when you get sick if have more than $5K in the bank other than the premium you pay. There is no difference between a $5K max out of pocket and a $10K max out of pocket if you have more than $10K in the bank other than the premium you pay. HSA, however, allow you to take the money in your account to pay for things that most insurances will not pay so you end up having money to pay all your co-pays, buy certain OTC meds, pay for your eye and dentist appointments. It is the very best purchased insurance to have if you can afford to fund your HSA.
 
Fisher said:
I am adequately insured. there is no difference between a $5K deductible and a $0 deductible when you get sick if have more than $5K in the bank other than the premium you pay. There is no difference between a $5K max out of pocket and a $10K max out of pocket if you have more than $10K in the bank other than the premium you pay. HSA, however, allow you to take the money in your account to pay for things that most insurances will not pay so you end up having money to pay all your co-pays, buy certain OTC meds, pay for your eye and dentist appointments. It is the very best purchased insurance to have if you can afford to fund your HSA.
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There is if you don't have 5k. There really is.

And HSA has limits, so your side largely over sells it. It won't fix our problems.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
But buying votes using other people's money (via income redistribution programs) is so easy and efficient. The only requirement for it to work well is to have more gov't check getting voters than tax paying voters, thus the reason for making the federal income tax system ever more progressive while adding ever more low income based entitlements. ;)
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Wonder whose money they are going to use when they run out of others' to spend? Rather frustrating to see the support for socialism when it has failed everywhere else in the world. There are never any recognized consequences for socialism failures, just spend more of someone else's money
 
calamity said:
Spending on infrastructure creates jobs; spending on education leads to more people who can then compete in the ever changing world. Both help build a sound nation.

Last I looked, we were in desperate need of an upgraded electrical grid and highways system, high speed trains which compare to those in Asia and Europe, and many more people educated in math and science. You don't think it behooves us as a nation to invest in those things and encourage more kids to learn math and science?
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I think that's not the purpose of society, to invest other peoples money.
 
Boo Radley said:
You shouldn't use poor sources, as they usually have poor content. I both noted how it was poor, and than rebutted the content.
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Tell me what sources you want me to post? How about Treasury Data showing how broke Medicare is? How about Kaiser data showing that it is impossible to create a single payer system and have enough doctors to provide service? how about European and Canadian data showing wait times for hospitals?

What is it about liberalism that creates this kind of naivity and belief that the Federal Govt. can administer anything well? We have a 17 trillion dollar debt mostly due to social engineering and yet that apparently isn't enough for you.

I find it quite frustrating that someone of your apparent intelligence is so naive and gullible to believe that in spite of past failures this time it will be different.
 
Conservative said:
Tell me what sources you want me to post? How about Treasury Data showing how broke Medicare is? How about Kaiser data showing that it is impossible to create a single payer system and have enough doctors to provide service? how about European and Canadian data showing wait times for hospitals?

What is it about liberalism that creates this kind of naivity and belief that the Federal Govt. can administer anything well? We have a 17 trillion dollar debt mostly due to social engineering and yet that apparently isn't enough for you.

I find it quite frustrating that someone of your apparent intelligence is so naive and gullible to believe that in spite of past failures this time it will be different.
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Valid sources that aren't factually inaccurate. And it would. Help if you knew what it was actually telling you. You misread some information.
 
zimmer said:
Anyone with a half brain knew ObamaKare was merely a step towards the Socialists of Amerika Partei's (SAPs) ultimate goal.

It's a prime example of the party of Lies & Deceit. They pass the bill using parliamentary procedures, their Top Hag Frau Pelosi tells us we have to sign it and then read it... Scott Brown wins Dead Kennedy's seat in MA in an effort to stop the idiocy, and now, years later they reveal their real goal.

The SAPs really do reflect their Rotten to the Core Royalty... The Felonious Clintons.
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Of course it is. We've always known that this was a torpedo meant to sink our entire healthcare system.
 
calamity;1062189144]Spending on infrastructure creates jobs; spending on education leads to more people who can then compete in the ever changing world. Both help build a sound nation.
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How many jobs did the ARRA create? Do you know what taxes fund infrastructure? You think the govt. is capable of administering a personal healthcare program for 312 million Americans?

Last I looked, we were in desperate need of an upgraded electrical grid and highways system, high speed trains which compare to those in Asia and Europe, and many more people educated in math and science. You don't think it behooves us as a nation to invest in those things and encourage more kids to learn math and science?
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Then maybe you should stop rewarding bad behavior by finding out where the infrastructure money went for those projects? As stated, spending in the name of compassion is more important to you than actually getting compassionate results. Interesting how infrastructure money has been put on budget and spent so your answer is to throw more money at the problem. That really make sense to you?

You have such a strong belief in the Federal govt. that has created a 17 trillion dollar debt. That makes no sense
 
Boo Radley said:
Valid sources that aren't factually inaccurate. And it would. Help if you knew what it was actually telling you. You misread some information.
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It would help if you answered the question. What sources do you want me to post that you would accept since actual data from the Treasury doesn't seem to fit the bill?
 
Boo Radley said:
Valid sources that aren't factually inaccurate. And it would. Help if you knew what it was actually telling you. You misread some information.
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It seems like you are only going to believe the sources you want to believe and ignore anything that contradicts your point of view. In addition logic and common sense apparently have no place in the liberal mind. Continuing to reward bad behavior is what you and others always support. It makes no sense with a 17 trillion dollar debt to add more to it by creating another entitlement program that simply gives the govt. more money to waste.
 
calamity said:
Spending on infrastructure creates jobs; spending on education leads to more people who can then compete in the ever changing world. Both help build a sound nation.

Last I looked, we were in desperate need of an upgraded electrical grid and highways system, high speed trains which compare to those in Asia and Europe, and many more people educated in math and science. You don't think it behooves us as a nation to invest in those things and encourage more kids to learn math and science?
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Let me give you an example of how "your" govt. works. Hurricane Sandy hit the New Jersey area and the cries came for liberals to spend in the name of compassion and demonizing the GOP for holding up funding. Rather than look at the funding request and what was funded with the Hurricane Sandy Bill liberals probably many like you read the headline and never the story. Here is the rest of the story that you and others ignored. Here is what the Hurricane Sandy bill included

$4 million for the Kennedy Space Center .
$8 million to buy cars and equipment for the Homeland Security and Justice departments.
$20 million for a nationwide "Water Resources Priorities Study".
$41 million for eight military bases including Guantanamo Bay .
$56.8 million for charting the debris from last year's Japanese tsunami.
$58.8 million for forest restoration on private land.
$100 million for the federal Head Start day care program.
$150 million in funding for Alaskan fisheries.
$188 million for new Amtrak lines (not repair, whole new lines).
$197 million "to. protect coastal ecosystems and habitat impacted by Hurricane Sandy."
$5.3 billion to the Army Corps of Engineers (that's more than their annual budget).
$10.78 billion for public transportation, most of which is allocated to future construction and improvements, not disaster relief.
$13 billion would go to "mitigation" projects to prepare for future storms.
$17 billion for wasteful Community Development Block Grants (CDBG), a program that has become notorious for its use as a backdoor earmark program.
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Now tell me again why you believe anything this Federal Govt. tells you and why you would support any program to give them more money and more power until they clean up their own mess?
 
jonny5 said:
I think that's not the purpose of society, to invest other peoples money.
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Libertarian. Never heard of a social contract?
 
Conservative said:
Let me give you an example of how "your" govt. works. Hurricane Sandy hit the New Jersey area and the cries came for liberals to spend in the name of compassion and demonizing the GOP for holding up funding. Rather than look at the funding request and what was funded with the Hurricane Sandy Bill liberals probably many like you read the headline and never the story. Here is the rest of the story that you and others ignored. Here is what the Hurricane Sandy bill included



Now tell me again why you believe anything this Federal Govt. tells you and why you would support any program to give them more money and more power until they clean up their own mess?
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Pennies on the dollar.
 
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