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Thread: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, I've answered this before as well. A person getting no care and gets adequate care has improved care and has improved service. And as everyone is still making money, and based on volume as it always has been, there is still the same incentives as always. You truly don't understand how this works.

    And yes some are dropping out. Some will always prefer to work for the wealthy. This is true in all professions. But there are still doctors who take Medicare, and will likely be more in the future.

    I'm not sure how many times you guys want me repeating things, but I do have a limit. I expect you to remember this.
    And older people which is part of our current population changes has less access because there are more people in the system creating greater stress on the current doctors in the system. Older people need more medical care and it isn't going to be available. Yours is theory and denies reality. I gave you the costs of Healthcare but here it is again.

    http://www.awhp-online.com/issues/AW...ts_7-26-04.pdf

    Your argument is all about access but doesn't address costs and service.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    It is all you ever talk about.


    I think government plays a very important role from infrastructure to the health of the nation to protecting fair business practices and more..
    What role did the Federal Govt. play in the creation of your business other than providing you the freedom to start your own business?

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    I hope so. We're the only industrial country in the world that doesn't guarantee a minimum of health care to its citizens. It's shameful, inefficient, and cruel. It means that if you have enough money, you get to live. If you don't, you die. No civilized country would do that to its citizens. Even Mexico provides health care, and it doesn't seem to care much for its citizens, but apparently recognizes that people need treatment. It also saves money in the long run, since a healthier citizenry costs less, and they also are freer to focus on work and education.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    No, it isn't a lie, history shows it isn't a lie, what makes people like you so gullible and always believing in theory while ignoring reality. There is nothing in this program that improves quality and service, not one thing. You live in a dream world. Transformation of this country into a European economic system will create the new normal of high debt, high unemployment, low economic growth, and massive dependence on the govt. where govt. spending is the largest component of GDP
    You want the law to provide quality? You don't know anything about quality.

    But I have explained exactly how it works. And if you examine their debt, other things are the main driver of that debt. Much like here, predatory lending practices led to the collapse. But be that as it may, they spend less, and with a two tiered system of UHC, we could lower costs and improve access, which does improve over all quality.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What role did the Federal Govt. play in the creation of your business other than providing you the freedom to start your own business?
    Copyright law and the enforcement of it to name just one.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    And older people which is part of our current population changes has less access because there are more people in the system creating greater stress on the current doctors in the system. Older people need more medical care and it isn't going to be available. Yours is theory and denies reality. I gave you the costs of Healthcare but here it is again.

    http://www.awhp-online.com/issues/AW...ts_7-26-04.pdf

    Your argument is all about access but doesn't address costs and service.
    You really should read the things you post:

    What Can Legislators Do to Help Control Rising Health Care Costs?
    Together we can make a difference...
    • Assure full funding of state government programs
    • Carefully evaluate requests for additional health care mandates
    • Advocate for regulatory simplification efforts
    • Evaluate the cumulative effect of additional regulation prior to implementation
    • Support reasonable limits on non-economic damages in medical malpractice lawsuits


    So, they are arguing that what is needed is more government. And what thy advocate for would be handled by going to a single payer UHC system. So, you're a funny fellow.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    ...actually the general welfare clause is pretty board. This notion that the only function of the US government is only to provide for the common defence is amusing.
    I never said only. And the general welfare clause is not a power, its a limitation on taxation and spending:

    Power - The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,
    Purpose - to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States.

    People who opposed the constitution specifically made the argument that general welfare was too broad, and the writers argued that it wasn't:

    Some, who have not denied the necessity of the power of taxation, have grounded a very fierce attack against the Constitution, on the language in which it is defined. It has been urged and echoed, that the power "to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States," amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare. No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction.

    Had no other enumeration or definition of the powers of the Congress been found in the Constitution, than the general expressions just cited, the authors of the objection might have had some color for it; though it would have been difficult to find a reason for so awkward a form of describing an authority to legislate in all possible cases. A power to destroy the freedom of the press, the trial by jury, or even to regulate the course of descents, or the forms of conveyances, must be very singularly expressed by the terms "to raise money for the general welfare."
    But what color can the objection have, when a specification of the objects alluded to by these general terms immediately follows, and is not even separated by a longer pause than a semicolon?
    -Madison

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    I hope so. We're the only industrial country in the world that doesn't guarantee a minimum of health care to its citizens. It's shameful, inefficient, and cruel. It means that if you have enough money, you get to live. If you don't, you die. No civilized country would do that to its citizens. Even Mexico provides health care, and it doesn't seem to care much for its citizens, but apparently recognizes that people need treatment. It also saves money in the long run, since a healthier citizenry costs less, and they also are freer to focus on work and education.
    What exactly does "guarantee a minimum of health care" mean? We require emergency care be given regardless of ability to pay - does that not "guarantee a minimum of health care"? Certainly that health care will not be "free" to all citizens, it will be free to some and yet paid for by others. We all need food, clothing and shelter too - should those "essential" goods/services be "guaranteed" to citizens as well? It all sounds so wonderful and "fair" until you look at the details. Federal income taxation in the US mandates that the top 10% of the taxapyers pay 71% of the total tax bill. Taxation and gov't guarantees of goods/services are always seen as a good deal for those that will personally get more value in gov't goods/services than they must pay for via taxation.

    Those "healthy" Mexicans:
    Mexico, Now More Obese Than US, Struggles To Afford Healthy Foods

    Those "happy" Mexicans:
    Most Mexicans See Better Life in U.S. – One-In-Three Would Migrate | Pew Global Attitudes Project
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 08-24-13 at 01:20 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You want the law to provide quality? You don't know anything about quality.

    But I have explained exactly how it works. And if you examine their debt, other things are the main driver of that debt. Much like here, predatory lending practices led to the collapse. But be that as it may, they spend less, and with a two tiered system of UHC, we could lower costs and improve access, which does improve over all quality.
    The market place will require quality or the businesses won't survive. I want healthcare where it belongs with the individual first and then the local and state communities.

    You explained theory but theory is just that, an opinion. European countries are dependent on govt. spending with that being the largest component of GDP. that isn't the case here. Austerity in Europe is a disaster because it cuts off what people are dependent on, govt. dollars? Europe also has lower defense budgets than we do which means they can focus in other areas. Their economy wasn't built on free enterprise and capitalism which seems to be something you don't understand. Costs in this country would be lower with competition, less legal expenses, and relaxing of govt. regulations on everything including FDA approval of drugs.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You really should read the things you post:

    What Can Legislators Do to Help Control Rising Health Care Costs?
    Together we can make a difference...
    • Assure full funding of state government programs
    • Carefully evaluate requests for additional health care mandates
    • Advocate for regulatory simplification efforts
    • Evaluate the cumulative effect of additional regulation prior to implementation
    • Support reasonable limits on non-economic damages in medical malpractice lawsuits


    So, they are arguing that what is needed is more government. And what thy advocate for would be handled by going to a single payer UHC system. So, you're a funny fellow.
    They are listing that as alternatives but what you ignore are the costs the Federal Govt. add to the private sector. Interesting how big govt. liberals like you do that. It is up to the people of the states to assure full funding of govt. programs and most do because of the balanced budget requirements

    evaluate requests for additional healthcare mandates? What state requests additional healthcare mandates from the Federal Govt?

    Advocate for regulatory simplifications is ongoing and you should know that but thanks for pointing out that regulations are a cost

    Evaluate the cumulative effect of additional regulations, again, pointing out the obvious and that is always in question at least by my state

    Support Reasonable limits on malpractice law suits-Thanks for getting on board

    So what you have done is show that regulations, law suits, and govt. mandates drive up costs. Solve those problems first before implementing another massive govt. entitlement program

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