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Thread: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by uncleray View Post
    Well, I do use my brain, although my wife might think otherwise. Just sayin'
    No need to quote the Constitution, got it installed as an App in my Nook.
    It is not being followed anyway by either party.
    I would disagree that with sovereign states (and lets not forget about Puerto Rico) Universal Healthcare is not possible.
    A healthy population is in the country's interest. We can't afford Emergency Room coverage anymore.
    If the Fed can print $85 billion a month to keep the banks healthy from the toxic actions of their own making,
    then surely we can come up with a solution to keep people healthy.
    Yes...we can. And the Republicans have tried many times to get the solution implemented. It's called getting the federal government out of the way.
    TANSTAAFL

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    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    There are a lot of factors that go into making a decision with most of them based upon logic, common sense, and historical data. When you look at SS and Medicare you see a well intended program that was self funding but is now trillions in unfunded liabilities as the money was used for other purposes. When you look at most liberal programs they are well intended but poorly administered and supervised thus are ripe with waste, fraud, and abuse. I am sure you mean well but the reality is you are very naive and ignoring history and common sense.

    This country is almost 17 trillion dollars in debt and continuing to borrow and print money to service that debt. Waste, fraud, and abuse always follows liberal social programs because politicians buy votes with their "handouts" thus driving up costs. National healthcare is a failure because it doesn't provide the quality service and access promised. There aren't enough doctors to service the additional people going on the healthcare roles but there will be plenty of money going in for the govt. bureaucrats to waste. Why would you reward past bad behavior by implementing another entitlement program?
    Yes, and it will take some time to reverse that trend. That said, we don't stop doing the people's work. A more efficient and cheaper health care system would help that and not hurt it. As I tried to show you, it is possible to do that and have more of your money in your pocket.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by uncleray View Post
    Well, I do use my brain, although my wife might think otherwise. Just sayin'
    No need to quote the Constitution, got it installed as an App in my Nook.
    It is not being followed anyway by either party.
    I would disagree that with sovereign states (and lets not forget about Puerto Rico) Universal Healthcare is not possible.
    A healthy population is in the country's interest. We can't afford Emergency Room coverage anymore.
    If the Fed can print $85 billion a month to keep the banks healthy from the toxic actions of their own making,
    then surely we can come up with a solution to keep people healthy.
    Where do you think people go when they cannot get into seeing a doctor if not the ER's. Check out the costs of MA healthcare and figure out why it is so high. Universal Healthcare is a noble goal but healthcare is a personal responsibility, not a Federal responsibility and I love it when people try to compare this country's healthcare costs to other nations none of which have 312 million people, the freedom of choices we have in this country, and 50 independent states.

    There aren't enough doctors to absorb another 14-30 million people, there are only a fixed number of hours doctors are capable of working so when people cannot get into a doctor's office they go to the ER which drives up costs. Waiting times are going to get longer and quality of care is going to drop.Check out the wait times in Canada and Britain, two countries closest to us.

    So many factors go into an individual's health including personal habits including alcohol and drug usage. How do you propose handling that. How about obesity, any ideas?


    Like all liberal ideas they may be noble but are not practical and always cost more than intended and do less than intended.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, and it will take some time to reverse that trend. That said, we don't stop doing the people's work. A more efficient and cheaper health care system would help that and not hurt it. As I tried to show you, it is possible to do that and have more of your money in your pocket.
    where does personal responsibility lie in your world and when are you going to try and refute the high costs in MA and other states with UHC? Logic and common sense apparently aren't something you understand. If people abuse their bodies they are going to need more care, that is a personal responsibility and you cannot legislate stupidity. Your thoughts are theory and theory when it comes to the govt. isn't worth the thought process that generates that theory. Why would you reward bad behavior by adding another entitlement program?

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Where do you think people go when they cannot get into seeing a doctor if not the ER's. Check out the costs of MA healthcare and figure out why it is so high. Universal Healthcare is a noble goal but healthcare is a personal responsibility, not a Federal responsibility and I love it when people try to compare this country's healthcare costs to other nations none of which have 312 million people, the freedom of choices we have in this country, and 50 independent states.
    My point was that while it is in the national interest to have a healthy population. And I agree that it not the
    Federal responsibility to provide health care; neither was it the Fed's responsibility to bailout Wallstreet even though they did.
    There aren't enough doctors to absorb another 14-30 million people, there are only a fixed number of hours doctors are capable of working so when people cannot get into a doctor's office they go to the ER which drives up costs. Waiting times are going to get longer and quality of care is going to drop.Check out the wait times in Canada and Britain, two countries closest to us.
    Agreed that there are not enough doctors for the 14-30 million. You can thank the AMA and med schools; but THAT is another story. However, with the additional numbers of insured now needing something like an x-ray or MRI, a technician can be trained in 6-12 months to perform that task. Unemployment goes down, personal income goes up and they get off unemployment.

    So many factors go into an individual's health including personal habits including alcohol and drug usage. How do you propose handling that. How about obesity, any ideas?
    How about we tax giant-sized drinks? They don't quench your thirst, but they do shoot up your blood sugar and burn out your pancreas so we can sell more insulin and glycemic control meds that are overpriced in this country and affordable elsewhere. We can thank Big Pharma, but again THAT's another story.
    Many diseases are related to obesity such as arthritis, heart conditions, etc. even snoring!

    Like all liberal ideas they may be noble but are not practical and always cost more than intended and do less than intended.[/QUOTE]
    Again, if there is money to treat the banks' toxic assets (CDO's and derrivatives, etc) shouldn't a way be found to treat the patient?

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by uncleray View Post
    My point was that while it is in the national interest to have a healthy population. And I agree that it not the
    Federal responsibility to provide health care; neither was it the Fed's responsibility to bailout Wallstreet even though they did.

    Agreed that there are not enough doctors for the 14-30 million. You can thank the AMA and med schools; but THAT is another story. However, with the additional numbers of insured now needing something like an x-ray or MRI, a technician can be trained in 6-12 months to perform that task. Unemployment goes down, personal income goes up and they get off unemployment.


    How about we tax giant-sized drinks? They don't quench your thirst, but they do shoot up your blood sugar and burn out your pancreas so we can sell more insulin and glycemic control meds that are overpriced in this country and affordable elsewhere. We can thank Big Pharma, but again THAT's another story.
    Many diseases are related to obesity such as arthritis, heart conditions, etc. even snoring!

    Like all liberal ideas they may be noble but are not practical and always cost more than intended and do less than intended.
    Again, if there is money to treat the banks' toxic assets (CDO's and derrivatives, etc) shouldn't a way be found to treat the patient?
    How about we stop rewarding bad behavior including the banks and the Federal Bureaucrats? We shouldn't bail out banks nor should we bail out personal behavior problems.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Welcome to the new "liberal" America and a perfect example of why Obamacare will not work as some will always take advantage of the taxpayers.

    Study: Welfare pays more than minimum wage in most states | Fox News

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    How about we stop rewarding bad behavior including the banks and the Federal Bureaucrats? We shouldn't bail out banks nor should we bail out personal behavior problems.
    And on THAT, we can agree !

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    where does personal responsibility lie in your world and when are you going to try and refute the high costs in MA and other states with UHC? Logic and common sense apparently aren't something you understand. If people abuse their bodies they are going to need more care, that is a personal responsibility and you cannot legislate stupidity. Your thoughts are theory and theory when it comes to the govt. isn't worth the thought process that generates that theory. Why would you reward bad behavior by adding another entitlement program?
    I'm not sure you guys are big on personal responsibility as you're always blaming others: the media, liberals, everyone who disagree with you (usually always that they're dumb, uneducated, hating America, lacking common sense, and whatever other name you can call them).

    But that fact is you can do everything right, and still find yourself needing medical care you cant afford on your own. It's beneficial for the country to have an efficient and sound plan to deal with public health. Needed care should be like fire and police, a public concern.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm not sure you guys are big on personal responsibility as you're always blaming others: the media, liberals, everyone who disagree with you (usually always that they're dumb, uneducated, hating America, lacking common sense, and whatever other name you can call them).

    But that fact is you can do everything right, and still find yourself needing medical care you cant afford on your own. It's beneficial for the country to have an efficient and sound plan to deal with public health. Needed care should be like fire and police, a public concern.
    Funny how the data supports us. The fact is you cannot legislate stupidity and personal responsibility. Your one size fits all always costs more than intended and provides less than other programs would provide. Take your "investment and your employers" investment in SS and put it in a simple CD over your work lifetime and see how much you would have when you retired and it would be all yours and your families.

    What I find quite perplexing is how someone with your intelligence can so easily be fooled and how gullible you are. You still haven't answered, what is in it for you?

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