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Thread: Editor fired for anti-Obama headline says bosses responded to pressure

  1. #61
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    Re: Editor fired for anti-Obama headline says bosses responded to pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    im not arguing against the news papers right to hire or fire. im arguing against the left thinking they have the right to protest the news paper and pressuring them to silence speech they don't like

    you have the right to protest but you don't have the right to protest to have some one silenced. you cant use a right to violate some one elses rights
    So did the right have a right to protest radio stations that played the Dixie Chicks?

    You have the right to protest whatever you want, and you have the right to ask that someone be "silenced." I'd hardly say this guy was silenced since he's now appeared on Fox which is a far bigger platform than any local newpaper.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.

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    Re: Editor fired for anti-Obama headline says bosses responded to pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Oh, I agree that Pete was wrong, and the "no brain" part was, ironically, kinda brainless.
    Gotcha.

    In my opinion, there's natural rights and then there's societal rights (which can take on a whole host of names depending on the societal structure).

    Natural rights are that which exist within nature, abscent any form of community. They are all things that are inherent upon oneself. You have the right to live. You have the right to defend yourself. You have the right to speech, to believe as you wish, to be around who you wish, etc. However, these natural rights extend only to the point in which you are able to exert them. There is no protection, there is no notion that your rights can not be infringed upon.

    These are rights people can not GIVE YOU. They are things that if you strip away all form of society you would still be able to strive to do. You can restrict these rights, but you can never fully take them away.

    Societal Rights are ones that exist thanks to the social contract. They are typically rights unable to exist within a state of nature. For example, "the right to vote" would be a societal right as there would be no such notion in the state of nature (Though it would be essentially a restricted version of the right to choose). Things like "Every citizen gets healthcare" would be a societal right. The notion of one persons rights ending if they infringe your own is, itself, a SOCEITAL right. Societal Rights go the opposite way than natural rights...they can always be expanded, but they can never be made truly permanent.

    Freedom of Speech as a notion is a natural right. As a soceity, we've placed agreed upon limitations to it...such as that speech being unable to infringe upon anothers rights through purposeful lying as a means of defaming the person (slander) as an example.

    We have rights in nature, but they're not protected and extend only to the point in which we can act upon them on our own. Whether people want to think they're endowed by a creator, by nature, by humanaity, whatever then more power to them....but ultimately one has "rights" even if there is no government, those rights are simply not protected.

  3. #63
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    Re: Editor fired for anti-Obama headline says bosses responded to pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    You don't have the right to be paid by
    somebody to say it. He is free to start his own paper and print whatever he wants, but there is no right to work for a newspaper.

    For example: You have the right to stand on a street corner and say whatever you want. You don't have a right to a TV show.
    The people that buy that Newspaper also have the right to cancel their subscriptions.

    If enough do, and this guy is rehired, I guess it's lesson learned.

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    Re: Editor fired for anti-Obama headline says bosses responded to pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    im not arguing against the news papers right to hire or fire. im arguing against the left thinking they have the right to protest the news paper and pressuring them to silence speech they don't like

    you have the right to protest but you don't have the right to protest to have some one silenced. you cant use a right to violate some one elses rights
    No one is being "silenced". The man can still talk, can still post online, can still use his own money and put out a newspaper if he wants, etc.

    He has NO RIGHT to use another persons property to spread his message. People ABSOLUTELY have the right to protest a private entity if they don't like what that private entity is doing.
    Last edited by Zyphlin; 08-02-13 at 12:51 PM.

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    Re: Editor fired for anti-Obama headline says bosses responded to pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    The people that buy that Newspaper also have the right to cancel their subscriptions.

    If enough do, and this guy is rehired, I guess it's lesson learned.
    They do, and if that's what happens, then it's what happens. It's all within people's rights.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.

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    Re: Editor fired for anti-Obama headline says bosses responded to pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Oh, come on. Do you really think the White House contacted this newspaper? Please.
    that's not beyond the pale
    certainly not for well connected supporters

    You're a Conservative. Don't you believe in following the policies of your job??
    he makes the argument that the policy was effected AFTER he made the headline edit. the veracity of that should be easy to assess
    he said he edited a placeholder headline; not an unusual edit

    and then there is the argument that the headline was too raunchy ... 'shove it' ... really?!
    it was an obvious play on an old CW hit, take this job and shove it, which was on the public airways for a long time
    but the theme is somehow too raunchy now for the president's delicate ears. don't think so

    then there are those who wrongly point to this as a free speech violation. clearly they have no understanding of our Bill of Rights
    but they also tend to be those opposed to unionization and supporters of an employer being able to fire employees at 'free will'
    except if the fired employee is one who appears to share their political point of view

    what is evident here is the wholesale ignorance of civics by much of our population
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Even his own advisers and confidantes think Trump's campaign committed treason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fruityfact View Post
    He's a genius relative to his voters.

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    Re: Editor fired for anti-Obama headline says bosses responded to pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by TiredOfLife View Post
    I read it but his post doesn't actually say that, but you might mistakenly think it does. Yelling out something that isn't true doesn't "infringe" upon anyone's rights. If it did there would be no preachers.
    Okay, so you're just ignorant of why "yelling fire in a crowded theater" is illegal.

    It's not because it's "untrue". It's because yelling such a thing in a crowded location with minimal exits is realistically likely to cause a paniced situation that has a high proability of leading to injury to some of those within the location.

    It's why the example is always "in a crowded theater".

    I could walk out to the middle of a park at 6:00 PM tonight when it's almost empty and shout out "FIRE!" and it not be illegal, because the conditions aren't such that I'm posing a legitimate threat to the public with my words.

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    Re: Editor fired for anti-Obama headline says bosses responded to pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    im not arguing against the news papers right to hire or fire. im arguing against the left thinking they have the right to protest the news paper and pressuring them to silence speech they don't like

    you have the right to protest but you don't have the right to protest to have some one silenced. you cant use a right to violate some one elses rights
    We use our collective rights to limit the rights of individuals to harm society and others. It's where the yelling fire, and inciting a riot, and threatening the life of the President limitations come into play. Your rights and my rights have to be in balance. It's not just do whatever you like as long as you aren't affecting anyone else. I know you want that to be true but it isn't. If if was I could drive 100 miles an hour and ignore all the red lights as long as no one else was on the road. Life doesn't work that way.

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    Re: Editor fired for anti-Obama headline says bosses responded to pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    The people that buy that Newspaper also have the right to cancel their subscriptions.

    If enough do, and this guy is rehired, I guess it's lesson learned.
    ABSOLUTELY!

    This is the free market, this is the freedom of commerce and of protest, etc.

    If people DISLIKE what this PRIVATE entity is saying, they can protest and boycott it in hopes of instituting change they'd like.

    If people DISLIKE the change that happened by this PRIVATE entity, then they can protest and boycott in hopes of instituting change THEY'D like.

    Everyone involved is invoking their rights and abilities and no one is having their rights TAKEN AWAY from them.

    No one has the right to have a job at a newspaper. No one has a right to have their speech pushed over someone elses product. And no one has the right to speak without reprucussions for that speech.

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    Re: Editor fired for anti-Obama headline says bosses responded to pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    im arguing against the left thinking they have the right to protest the news paper and pressuring them to silence speech they don't like
    Perhaps you mis-stated this?
    Subscribers have no right to express their opinions to the the newspaper they subscribe to? It seems like a God-given right to expression would cover the right to tell a service provider what you think of their services, imho anyway.
    I think that some service provider actively seek out the opinions of their subscribers. Are we quite sure that these people have no right to express their opinions to the paper about the paper?
    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    you cant use a right to violate some one elses rights
    Complaining to the paper about its content is not a violation of someone's rights afaict.
    I may be wrong.

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