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Thread: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You never addressed the point. You posted a graph that had nothing to do with what you were claiming it had something to do with. I don't care how far you go back, but our interventionism in the ME which really took off near the end of/after WW II. It was in 1944 that the UK and US split up the ME for oil concerns. We've been meddling ever since.
    Okay, great answer. Very mature.

    So next, this exchange:

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    We're much safer than the 1960s, of course. We're not under the threat of nuclear war. Terrorism is about the democratization of violence, via technology, and that has very little to do with American policy. What American policy could've completely avoided twitter?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Are we? We no longer have the Soviet Union it's true. But we're worried about North Korea having weapons, Iran going nuclear, Russia not being able to account for all its nukes, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    And? We were worried about North Korea before that. Pakistan before that. India before that. South Africa before that. Israel before that. These things have nothing to do with American policy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Not quite to this extent. Pakistan we still worry about, didn't really improve that. South Africa isn't really any better. We still involve ourselves with Israel. Interventionism has fueled a lot of the conflicts.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    South Africa isn't any better? Why are you talking about things you know nothing about? This is on par with the 'US trained OBL' escapade.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's one of the most crime ridden countries on the planet. The Western world just doesn't really care much about Africa anymore. It's not that it's gotten better. Africa in general is rather messed up and we don't really pay much mind.
    (We stopped talking about it there, as the issues you were having with facts were piling up at an alarming rate, making it clear that there wouldn't be a rewarding discussion with you.

    Why did you talk about how South Africa "isn't really any better" when we're clearly talking about nuclear proliferation? Why would you do that? Did you

    #1- not know that South Africa used to have nuclear weapons, and that obviously now the nuclear situation there is better?
    #2- want to move the goalposts just to try to 'win' a discussion?
    #3- other

    Neither #1 nor #2 reflect very positively upon you, I must say, so I hope there's a third option there. Then, as the problems mounted up (the four I specified), I stopped having a debate with you.

    EDIT: For the sake of completeness, I added the further exchanges.
    Last edited by OldWorldOrder; 08-08-13 at 02:03 PM.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    And yet none of that indicates that bin Laden worked for the CIA. It indicates that bin Laden would sometimes fight alongside Afghans, and that the CIA gave the ISI money, and that the ISI gave the Afghans money. bin Laden didn't need ISI money. So, like I told you pages ago: YOUR LINK DOESN'T SAY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IT DOES



    Very much so.



    Did you just link me Yahoo! Answers? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL



    Plus a Bio based on Truth. I am sure you can look up NBC directly. Same with MSNBC.

  3. #253
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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, I don't think that it's a cultural thing, I think it's a "we've been bombing and messing with the are for over 60 years" sort of thing. If people were up in our business, bombing our cities, deploying troops, making us do what they want for decades on end, we'd be pretty pissed too. So much so that if we were unable to solve this diplomatically, we would start engaging in terrorism.

    Maybe some don't like us for our culture, but the level of success terrorists have had at waging their war and recruiting is heavily influenced by our own interventionism in the region.

    No, if "bombing and messing around" was the primary recruiting tool then the primary messaging tool wouldn't be bombing. Why they fight is not that we are there, it is what we represent to them and their culture.

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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Why did you talk about how South Africa "isn't really any better" when we're clearly talking about nuclear proliferation? Why would you do that? Did you

    #1- not know that South Africa used to have nuclear weapons, and that obviously now the nuclear situation there is better?
    #2- want to move the goalposts just to try to 'win' a discussion?
    #3- other

    Neither #1 nor #2 reflect very positively upon you, I must say, so I hope there's a third option there.
    Since overall our meddling there (the West in general) hasn't produced anything very substantial in gains there.

    But let's state it a different way. SA was one of the few (maybe only?) countries to voluntarily give up their nuclear weapons, and it didn't come at the end of military interventionism. It was accomplished through diplomacy and treaty.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    No, if "bombing and messing around" was the primary recruiting tool then the primary messaging tool wouldn't be bombing. Why they fight is not that we are there, it is what we represent to them and their culture.
    I think for the radical fringe that may be true. But because of our military intervention, we play into the generalized hate of the West and that hate is used as propaganda for the terrorist organizations to recruit and function more effectively than they would have been able to otherwise.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post


    Plus a Bio based on Truth. I am sure you can look up NBC directly. Same with MSNBC.
    Your own links don't say what you think they say, and you don't even care. Wow.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Since overall our meddling there (the West in general) hasn't produced anything very substantial in gains there.

    But let's state it a different way. SA was one of the few (maybe only?) countries to voluntarily give up their nuclear weapons, and it didn't come at the end of military interventionism. It was accomplished through diplomacy and treaty.
    So, #1, #2, or #3 (other)? I'm not having a discussion with you until we get over these TREMENDOUS FLAWS in both your argumentation and your argument itself. You can't lie and have facts blatantly wrong, let them go completely unaddressed, and expect people to have conversations with you. Why would I start in having one with you when these issues are still on the table?

    You blatantly lied about what I presented the graph for. You had some issue with the South Africa discussion (not sure what, yet). You are very unclear about OBL's involvement in Afghanistan in the 1980s and how it dovetails with CIA operations. God knows what else you'll make up, lie about, or just don't know about, so until we address these issues, there's nothing other than them to talk about it. Do you understand?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    So, #1, #2, or #3 (other)? I'm not having a discussion with you until we get over these TREMENDOUS FLAWS in both your argumentation and your argument itself. You can't lie and have facts blatantly wrong, let them go completely unaddressed, and expect people to have conversations with you. Why would I start in having one with you when these issues are still on the table?

    You blatantly lied about what I presented the graph for. You had some issue with the South Africa discussion (not sure what, yet). You are very unclear about OBL's involvement in Afghanistan in the 1980s and how it dovetails with CIA operations. God knows what else you'll make up, lie about, or just don't know about, so until we address these issues, there's nothing other than them to talk about it. Do you understand?
    I clarified the argument. You can either accept it and address the points, or continue with petty insult. Your graph did not say what you thought it said and had nothing to do with what I claimed. So you can edit the argument and perchance discuss the actual points if you wish to engage in actual debate.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I clarified the argument. You can either accept it and address the points, or continue with petty insult. Your graph did not say what you thought it said and had nothing to do with what I claimed. So you can edit the argument and perchance discuss the actual points if you wish to engage in actual debate.
    Very mature.

    No serious discussion for you.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Very mature.

    No serious discussion for you.
    Meh, you're free to run off if you want. You just want to make straw man arguments and insult, so you can't even accept a clarification of the argument. That's fine, your choice. Many fine people have run away when unable to address actual points.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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