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Thread: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

  1. #211
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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    What Intel doesn't haven't the information Sherman? What Military? You can look it up from the Russians Side of the story too. Even Bin Ladens own family acknowledges it. Saudia Arabia Acknowledges it and most of all. Brzezinski himself admits to it.....and says he would do it all over again. The CIA doesn't admit or deny any of it. Especially after NBC and MSNBC and those liberals and progressives busted it out.

    Especially when going after both Bush one and Bush two over the Neo-Cons and any dealings with him or AQ. Course one can look thru the MB and any documentation they are holding as well.
    No they don't None of them acknowledge it. There was no contact with Bin Laden during the Afghan war. We barely knew who he was. Furthermore on the rare occasions when we had control over where our support was directed we tried to get it to Massoud and his fighters in Panjishir. Why would we have been seeking out a relatively unknown Saudi millionaire and his few hundred (if that) fighters? It makes no sense.

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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    We've been much more heavily involved in Asia, Latin America, and Africa than we ever were in the Middle East. Yet the reaction is completely different. I think it is hard to make the case that this is merely a reaction to our foreign policy. Moreover even if it is a reaction to our foreign policy it is not necessarily an indictment of our actions. Their reaction is not the standard by which such policies are evaluated.
    Have we? We've ruled over a lot of those places, but much more economically than militarily. Latin America stuff has bitten us in the butt too and often times some of the rebels we funded there turned out to run guns, drugs, commit horrible crimes, and once in office become unreceptive to America. The level of terrorist bombings? Not so much, not on our soil proper, but even the the ME terrorist attacks on the 50 States proper is also exceedingly limited. It's all low probability events.

    There's a lot of historic context of conflict between the ME and the West probably stretching back to before the Crusades. But military intervention over the course of several decades isn't going to push the necessary attitudes required for us to get through the troubled times, become friends, and see the advent of friendly governments in the region.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    No they don't None of them acknowledge it. There was no contact with Bin Laden during the Afghan war. We barely knew who he was. Furthermore on the rare occasions when we had control over where our support was directed we tried to get it to Massoud and his fighters in Panjishir. Why would we have been seeking out a relatively unknown Saudi millionaire and his few hundred (if that) fighters? It makes no sense.
    But they do acknowledge somethings Sherman......which if all on each side of the coin is admitting to it. Then the facts are true. Even Pakistan's Zia ul Haq stated Osama bin laden was with Hekmetyar's faction and was a loyal and trusted friend.

    Mujaheddin

    In April 1978, the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) seized power in Afghanistan in reaction to a crackdown against the party by that country's repressive government.

    The PDPA was committed to a radical land reform that favoured the peasants, trade union rights, an expansion of education and social services, equality for women and the separation of church and state. The PDPA also supported strengthening Afghanistan's relationship with the Soviet Union.

    Such policies enraged the wealthy semi-feudal landlords, the Muslim religious establishment (many mullahs were also big landlords) and the tribal chiefs. They immediately began organizing resistance to the government's progressive policies, under the guise of defending Islam.

    Washington, fearing the spread of Soviet influence (and worse the new government's radical example) to its allies in Pakistan, Iran and the Gulf states, immediately offered support to the Afghan mujaheddin, as the “contra” force was known.

    Following an internal PDPA power struggle in December 1979 which toppled Afghanistan's leader, thousands of Soviet troops entered the country to prevent the new government's fall. This only galvanized the disparate fundamentalist factions. Their reactionary jihad now gained legitimacy as a “national liberation” struggle in the eyes of many Afghans.

    The Soviet Union was eventually to withdraw from Afghanistan in 1989 and the mujaheddin captured the capital, Kabul, in 1992.

    Between 1978 and 1992, the US government poured at least US$6 billion (some estimates range as high as $20 billion) worth of arms, training and funds to prop up the mujaheddin factions. Other Western governments, as well as oil-rich Saudi Arabia, kicked in as much again. Wealthy Arab fanatics, like Osama bin Laden, provided millions more.

    Washington's policy in Afghanistan was shaped by US President Jimmy Carter's national security advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and was continued by his successors. His plan went far beyond simply forcing Soviet troops to withdraw; rather it aimed to foster an international movement to spread Islamic fanaticism into the Muslim Central Asian Soviet republics to destabilize the Soviet Union.

    Brzezinski's grand plan coincided with Pakistan military dictator General Zia ul-Haq's own ambitions to dominate the region. US-run Radio Liberty and Radio Free Europe beamed Islamic fundamentalist tirades across Central Asia (while paradoxically denouncing the “Islamic revolution” that toppled the pro-US Shah of Iran in 1979).

    Washington's favoured mujaheddin faction was one of the most extreme, led by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. The West's distaste for terrorism did not apply to this unsavory “freedom fighter”. Hekmatyar was notorious in the 1970's for throwing acid in the faces of women who refused to wear the veil.

    After the mujaheddin took Kabul in 1992, Hekmatyar's forces rained US-supplied missiles and rockets on that city — killing at least 2000 civilians — until the new government agreed to give him the post of prime minister. Osama bin Laden was a close associate of Hekmatyar and his faction.

    Hekmatyar was also infamous for his side trade in the cultivation and trafficking in opium. Backing of the mujaheddin from the CIA coincided with a boom in the drug business. Within two years, the Afghanistan-Pakistan border was the world's single largest source of heroin, supplying 60% of US drug users.

    In 1995, the former director of the CIA's operation in Afghanistan was unrepentant about the explosion in the flow of drugs: “Our main mission was to do as much damage as possible to the Soviets... There was a fallout in terms of drugs, yes. But the main objective was accomplished. The Soviets left Afghanistan.”.....snip~

  4. #214
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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    .....Get back to me after ya check out Brzezinski and Lil Timmy.


    Dude, read a ****ing book.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I think that it's all you can do to avoid having to talk to the points.
    Wow. I'm just dumbfounded by you.

    I don't get why people talk about things they don't understand.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Dude, read a ****ing book.
    You need a new line. Information was provided and you have nothing to address the points made other than emotionalized insult. How about instead of drab, unintelligent insult you just address the points and provide your own links?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Wow. I'm just dumbfounded by you.

    I don't get why people talk about things they don't understand.
    I don't know either, why are you still doing so?

    Also, once again an entire post of yours is nothing more than emotionalize, personal insult.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #218
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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    But they do acknowledge somethings Sherman......which if all on each side of the coin is admitting to it. Then the facts are true. Even Pakistan's Zia ul Haq stated Osama bin laden was with Hekmetyar's faction and was a loyal and trusted friend.

    Mujaheddin

    In April 1978, the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) seized power in Afghanistan in reaction to a crackdown against the party by that country's repressive government.

    The PDPA was committed to a radical land reform that favoured the peasants, trade union rights, an expansion of education and social services, equality for women and the separation of church and state. The PDPA also supported strengthening Afghanistan's relationship with the Soviet Union.

    Such policies enraged the wealthy semi-feudal landlords, the Muslim religious establishment (many mullahs were also big landlords) and the tribal chiefs. They immediately began organizing resistance to the government's progressive policies, under the guise of defending Islam.

    Washington, fearing the spread of Soviet influence (and worse the new government's radical example) to its allies in Pakistan, Iran and the Gulf states, immediately offered support to the Afghan mujaheddin, as the “contra” force was known.

    Following an internal PDPA power struggle in December 1979 which toppled Afghanistan's leader, thousands of Soviet troops entered the country to prevent the new government's fall. This only galvanized the disparate fundamentalist factions. Their reactionary jihad now gained legitimacy as a “national liberation” struggle in the eyes of many Afghans.

    The Soviet Union was eventually to withdraw from Afghanistan in 1989 and the mujaheddin captured the capital, Kabul, in 1992.

    Between 1978 and 1992, the US government poured at least US$6 billion (some estimates range as high as $20 billion) worth of arms, training and funds to prop up the mujaheddin factions. Other Western governments, as well as oil-rich Saudi Arabia, kicked in as much again. Wealthy Arab fanatics, like Osama bin Laden, provided millions more.

    Washington's policy in Afghanistan was shaped by US President Jimmy Carter's national security advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and was continued by his successors. His plan went far beyond simply forcing Soviet troops to withdraw; rather it aimed to foster an international movement to spread Islamic fanaticism into the Muslim Central Asian Soviet republics to destabilize the Soviet Union.

    Brzezinski's grand plan coincided with Pakistan military dictator General Zia ul-Haq's own ambitions to dominate the region. US-run Radio Liberty and Radio Free Europe beamed Islamic fundamentalist tirades across Central Asia (while paradoxically denouncing the “Islamic revolution” that toppled the pro-US Shah of Iran in 1979).

    Washington's favoured mujaheddin faction was one of the most extreme, led by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. The West's distaste for terrorism did not apply to this unsavory “freedom fighter”. Hekmatyar was notorious in the 1970's for throwing acid in the faces of women who refused to wear the veil.

    After the mujaheddin took Kabul in 1992, Hekmatyar's forces rained US-supplied missiles and rockets on that city — killing at least 2000 civilians — until the new government agreed to give him the post of prime minister. Osama bin Laden was a close associate of Hekmatyar and his faction.

    Hekmatyar was also infamous for his side trade in the cultivation and trafficking in opium. Backing of the mujaheddin from the CIA coincided with a boom in the drug business. Within two years, the Afghanistan-Pakistan border was the world's single largest source of heroin, supplying 60% of US drug users.

    In 1995, the former director of the CIA's operation in Afghanistan was unrepentant about the explosion in the flow of drugs: “Our main mission was to do as much damage as possible to the Soviets... There was a fallout in terms of drugs, yes. But the main objective was accomplished. The Soviets left Afghanistan.”.....snip~
    lol

    NONE OF THAT SUPPORTS WHAT YOU SAID

    That's conspiracy theory, we're talking about real life. Peter Bergen and Steve Coll have written tremendous books (plural, for both) about bin Laden, I suggest you read them.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  9. #219
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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I don't know either, why are you still doing so?
    looooooooooooooool
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  10. #220
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    Re: US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You need a new line. Information was provided and you have nothing to address the points made other than emotionalized insult. How about instead of drab, unintelligent insult you just address the points and provide your own links?

    Information wasn't provided lol. Are you high right now? Are you katsung?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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