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New Snowden leak: NSA program taps all you do online

greyhat said:
The reality is that these programs, which have been around for decades, are there to protect those freedoms. Carnivore, an FBI sniffer program, was around in the late 1990s..lets not get all worked up now.
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It's a tool, just like a gun. Guns in the hands of the govt are also ostensibly there to protect my freedoms.
But one of the big differences is that it's easier to tell if a gun has been used in a manner which is inconsistent with the law. It's easier to see an buse of position or power if the tool used is a gun. When the tool is access to off-site data, it's much harder to watch the watchmen who're protecting my freedoms.

greyhat said:
I don't deny that Uncle Sam screws shyt up all the time, but to extrapolate how one feels about government in general to how the IC operates or why they do what they do is beyond logic.
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" I harbor ... concerns that one day a person who is something less than sterling may slip past the [screeners] or be accidentally appointed to a public trust. One day [someone] who puts his own interests and the interests of those who ply him with funds and favors above the best interests of the Americans he serves could find his way into a public trust.

Course, I realize how unlikely it is that such a thing'd occur again in our lifetimes. Yet, it'll occur in some Americans' lifetimes. It may happen in the next hundred months. It may not happen til after the next one hundred years. No matter how long it takes, it's sure to occur. The electorate must actively preserve and acquire all necessary tools to find skullduggery and the appearances of skullduggery. When used properly, these limit the damage potential of hugger mugger scoundrels and reprobates in positions of public trust. The electorate must also actively preserve and acquire all necessary tools to end and correct such perfidy as it is discovered​
 
Re: XKeyStore

Mr.Nick said:
Absolutely.......

This is just the beginning tho. These tyrants are trying to make us "get used to" the idea of government superiority over the individual not to mention our Bill of Rights. They (government) calls that "progress" - meaning slow change over time (in which humans can easily adapt to) especially when they're brainwashed on top of that.
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Totally agree, and perhaps a way to set this back on a manageable course, since the genie is already out of the box, is to allow us, ordinary citizens, the right to access this same program and be able to look at all Federal employees, allow access to everything they have on them... and should it ever be found to be utilized against an individual without obtaining a proper warrant first, all information of whatever nature, classified or not, that anybody that was involved with obtaining information on that individual, from the perpetrator's birth records on, should be accessible to the injured party.

That will not fix the problem, but maybe someone has a better idea as this is and will be an ongoing problem in a free society...
 
greyhat said:
It is overblown; it is sensationalized to appeal to American's core belief that their freedoms and privacy are sacred and are now under assault.

The reality is that these programs, which have been around for decades, are there to protect those freedoms. Carnivore, an FBI sniffer program, was around in the late 1990s..lets not get all worked up now. You assume the programs are targeted at you, which is pretty narcissistic btw; xkeyscore, which is old btw, wasn't designed to track your bs Internet activity LOL.

Jut look at how people react: "low level employees have access to my info..." I mean com'on, you make it sound like the 15 year old at McDonalds does. Low level employees at the NSA aren't the guy who sweeps the floor or asks if you want fries with your burger.

People's passions are being stoked by this story. This is why people throw up The Fourth Amendment and make analogies to their physical persons being searched; the truth is that The Fourth Amendment doesn't cover you 100% within the electronic spectrum. In fact most references to it show how little people actually understand The Fourth Amendment.

There have been decades of legal precedent that have addressed pieces of this argument and programs. Some of you seem to think that the whole government is just one big rogue outfit. An elephant trampling on your rights; I don't deny that Uncle Sam screws shyt up all the time, but to extrapolate how one feels about government in general to how the IC operates or why they do what they do is beyond logic. I mean, what do you think the NSA does?

In the end history will clear up this whole debacle; IMO Snowden is a mole, and a rat, his whole job hopping campaign deeper and deeper into the infrastructure of these programs smells fishy. The guy worked at BA for three months before running to HK with all these secrets; his time line of activities do not make sense. This guy had help and IMO from the outside. He is no hero and your being misled.

The media and many have taken sympathy to this POS; however history will prove that you were misled...in the interim no amount of logic and facts will suffice for those of you with preconceived notions.
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Yes, the problem is not with ""the 15 year old at McDonalds"... it is rather the Snowdens of the world, its the "rogue" or influenced IRS employees who start looking for ways to mess with people who perhaps are not of the same political or religious or...whatever, stripe as they are... this system is fraught with bad possibilities, ripe to be picked by the worst amongst us even while it can be used for good as well.
 
Re: XKeyStore

specklebang said:
Thank you. It's just astonishing that people curse Snowden as a traitor and then bitch about being spied on. Snowden is a ****ing hero as far as I'm concerned.
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I think the jury is still out on Snowden. As a person who regards my Constitutional rights as near sacred, I believe he has informed and confirmed for us something extremely important here. However, I have no idea what other materials he has given up, how that affects our security with there being lots of predators out there in the rest of the world who would do us harm... so it really depends...
 
Watching greyhat and OldWorldOrder school joko on what computer programs can and can't do is absolutely hilarious. It's Aslan-Fox all over again.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
It's not too asinine of an assumption when you make it very clear that you completely trust the government with all of this and have zero issue with low level employees being able to access any American's data. You're putting your safety in front of our privacy rights, which in my opinion is a very cowardly thing to do.
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There you go, making stuff up again. I never once said that I trust them. I said that anyone who didn't know that the government's intel branch was up to no good is an idiot. People don't even remember the case in 2006

I never said they were monitoring every single mouse click or email, I'm stating, like the facts represent, that they CAN check any given individuals email, browsing history, phone calls, etc. They also DO this on a very regular basis with almost zero oversight or approval required. As the leak reported, any authorized low level employee can use the software without specific authorization for the person they're looking for.
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Why yes they can, and have been able to do so for a while. Is this somehow new and shocking to you?

Combine this with the previous leak, that they're gathering an insane amount of meta data on everything you do, they can target individuals with "suspicious profiles".
(which turns out to be rather silly things like 'using a language not typical of the region they're in.' This is the American melting pot, no ****).
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It takes more than that to make the list. As of 2008, there are over 3.5 million Arabs in this country. They aren't going to watch them all. They would be looking for behavior, aliases, associates, religious and political views, and other things like that. They would have a system that helps them sift through and filter what they view is a credible threat.

This is insider information. Up until now the depth of their abilities has been largely unknown, and was mostly viewed as "paranoid conspiracy theories". Now we have definitive proof. If it wasn't insider information, Snowden wouldn't be the most wanted man alive right now.
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The most wanted man alive is Joaquin Guzman. Snowden isn't even on the top ten list. It was also easily realized if anyone in this ****ing country actually paid attention to what was going on around them. Room 641a, look it up and tell me you wouldn't come to the same conclusion. Or just look at the history of the FBI and the CIA.
 
Surtr said:
There you go, making stuff up again. I never once said that I trust them. I said that anyone who didn't know that the government's intel branch was up to no good is an idiot. People don't even remember the case in 2006


Why yes they can, and have been able to do so for a while. Is this somehow new and shocking to you?


It takes more than that to make the list. As of 2008, there are over 3.5 million Arabs in this country. They aren't going to watch them all. They would be looking for behavior, aliases, associates, religious and political views, and other things like that. They would have a system that helps them sift through and filter what they view is a credible threat.


The most wanted man alive is Joaquin Guzman. Snowden isn't even on the top ten list. It was also easily realized if anyone in this ****ing country actually paid attention to what was going on around them. Room 641a, look it up and tell me you wouldn't come to the same conclusion. Or just look at the history of the FBI and the CIA.
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It's the feigned outrage of the Libertarian right wing. 6 years ago, this forum had somewhere near 0 Libertarians complaining about the NSA case even though it was posted a few times. Now, all of a sudden they care.
 
Surtr said:
The FBI did track the Tsarnaev brothers. They even brought them in for questioning based on information givenn to them by the Russians. The FBI believed that they weren't a threat, and removed the flag. They have likely changed a few things as a result.
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I was more referring more to watched sites/phone numbers.
 
Surtr said:
There you go, making stuff up again. I never once said that I trust them. I said that anyone who didn't know that the government's intel branch was up to no good is an idiot. People don't even remember the case in 2006


Why yes they can, and have been able to do so for a while. Is this somehow new and shocking to you?


It takes more than that to make the list. As of 2008, there are over 3.5 million Arabs in this country. They aren't going to watch them all. They would be looking for behavior, aliases, associates, religious and political views, and other things like that. They would have a system that helps them sift through and filter what they view is a credible threat.


The most wanted man alive is Joaquin Guzman. Snowden isn't even on the top ten list. It was also easily realized if anyone in this ****ing country actually paid attention to what was going on around them. Room 641a, look it up and tell me you wouldn't come to the same conclusion. Or just look at the history of the FBI and the CIA.
Click to expand...

1) I'm not making anything up, I'm responding to exactly what you are saying. You're passionately arguing that we have nothing to worry about, which means you trust our government with this power.

2) Yes, it is new to me, because these capabilities have not been proven facts until now. The carnivore program didn't do the same thing this did. Once again, if we all already knew about it, why is the US government and the people all freaking out? (Because we didn't really know about it and the government didn't want us to know about it, hence the top secret)

greyhat said:
It is overblown; it is sensationalized to appeal to American's core belief that their freedoms and privacy are sacred and are now under assault.

The reality is that these programs, which have been around for decades, are there to protect those freedoms. Carnivore, an FBI sniffer program, was around in the late 1990s..lets not get all worked up now. You assume the programs are targeted at you, which is pretty narcissistic btw; xkeyscore, which is old btw, wasn't designed to track your bs Internet activity LOL.

Jut look at how people react: "low level employees have access to my info..." I mean com'on, you make it sound like the 15 year old at McDonalds does. Low level employees at the NSA aren't the guy who sweeps the floor or asks if you want fries with your burger.

People's passions are being stoked by this story. This is why people throw up The Fourth Amendment and make analogies to their physical persons being searched; the truth is that The Fourth Amendment doesn't cover you 100% within the electronic spectrum. In fact most references to it show how little people actually understand The Fourth Amendment.

There have been decades of legal precedent that have addressed pieces of this argument and programs. Some of you seem to think that the whole government is just one big rogue outfit. An elephant trampling on your rights; I don't deny that Uncle Sam screws shyt up all the time, but to extrapolate how one feels about government in general to how the IC operates or why they do what they do is beyond logic. I mean, what do you think the NSA does?

In the end history will clear up this whole debacle; IMO Snowden is a mole, and a rat, his whole job hopping campaign deeper and deeper into the infrastructure of these programs smells fishy. The guy worked at BA for three months before running to HK with all these secrets; his time line of activities do not make sense. This guy had help and IMO from the outside. He is no hero and your being misled.

The media and many have taken sympathy to this POS; however history will prove that you were misled...in the interim no amount of logic and facts will suffice for those of you with preconceived notions.
Click to expand...

I don't care who it is doing it, low level employees or the president himself. The fact is, they're spying on Americans and doing it without any real degree of oversight. I'm sorry, but I'm not like you. I don't like handing my freedoms over to the government, then cupping my hands over my ears and hoping they never abuse it.

Your argument is based entirely on "They were already doing it" and "We can trust them, they're the government". The fact that they were already doing something ****ed up isn't an excuse to continue. That'd be like, yeah, I drink and drive, but I do it all the time so why stop now?

Hatuey said:
It's the feigned outrage of the Libertarian right wing. 6 years ago, this forum had somewhere near 0 Libertarians complaining about the NSA case even though it was posted a few times. Now, all of a sudden they care.
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I wasn't here 6 years ago, but I can guarantee you I would've cared. I'd like to know what story revealed this exact same information from a reliable source 6 years ago. Everyone is pretending they already knew about this, but all I've seen is somewhat similar though drastically less advanced programs. Certainly nothing of this magnitude.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
1) I'm not making anything up, I'm


I don't care who it is doing it, low level employees or the president himself. The fact is, they're spying on Americans and doing it without any real degree of oversight. I'm sorry, but I'm not like you. I don't like handing my freedoms over to the government, then cupping my hands over my ears and hoping they never abuse it.

Your argument is based entirely on "They were already doing it" and "We can trust them, they're the government". The fact that they were already doing something ****ed up isn't an excuse to continue. That'd be like, yeah, I drink and drive, but I do it all the time so why stop now?
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I think your a bit paranoid and perhaps narcissistic if u think ur being watched lol
 
greyhat said:
I think your a bit paranoid and perhaps narcissistic if u think ur being watched lol
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*you're

Have I once said that I personally am being watched?

You do realize that you can be upset about something your government does even if they're not doing it directly to you, right? Kind of like I could get mad if they were running around shooting red heads. I'm blonde, so why should I care, right?
 
Re: XKeyStore

Well, I have no idea what materials you have given up either but I'll assume you are innocent until I have reason to believe otherwise.

To me, it's pretty obvious what has been "given up". The dark secret that you are being spied on by your own government. I haven't heard that Snowden had atomic secrets or troop positions to give up evewn if he were so inclined. He worked at an agency that spies on you. That's all he has to give. That agency is a sub-agency of an agency that can detain you for life without due process.


Gaugingcatenate said:
I think the jury is still out on Snowden. As a person who regards my Constitutional rights as near sacred, I believe he has informed and confirmed for us something extremely important here. However, I have no idea what other materials he has given up, how that affects our security with there being lots of predators out there in the rest of the world who would do us harm... so it really depends...
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Re: XKeyStore

specklebang said:
Well, I have no idea what materials you have given up either but I'll assume you are innocent until I have reason to believe otherwise.

To me, it's pretty obvious what has been "given up". The dark secret that you are being spied on by your own government. I haven't heard that Snowden had atomic secrets or troop positions to give up evewn if he were so inclined. He worked at an agency that spies on you. That's all he has to give. That agency is a sub-agency of an agency that can detain you for life without due process.
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Not so fast there. The NSA is tasked with spying globally, so there may just be many secrets to which Snowden had access. You don't know and neither do I. Jury is still out, like I said previously.
 
Re: XKeyStore

OK, I agree. The jury is still out.


Gaugingcatenate said:
Not so fast there. The NSA is tasked with spying globally, so there may just be many secrets to which Snowden had access. You don't know and neither do I. Jury is still out, like I said previously.
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RabidAlpaca said:
*you're

Have I once said that I personally am being watched?

You do realize that you can be upset about something your government does even if they're not doing it directly to you, right? Kind of like I could get mad if they were running around shooting red heads. I'm blonde, so why should I care, right?
Click to expand...

You're right, you can be upset, but first get the full picture and some context...
 
Re: XKeyStore

Gaugingcatenate said:
Totally agree, and perhaps a way to set this back on a manageable course, since the genie is already out of the box, is to allow us, ordinary citizens, the right to access this same program and be able to look at all Federal employees, allow access to everything they have on them... and should it ever be found to be utilized against an individual without obtaining a proper warrant first, all information of whatever nature, classified or not, that anybody that was involved with obtaining information on that individual, from the perpetrator's birth records on, should be accessible to the injured party.

That will not fix the problem, but maybe someone has a better idea as this is and will be an ongoing problem in a free society...
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You're asking for transparency - something our government knows absolutely nothing about.

You have to remember our government has the "us (government) vs them (the people)" persona.

Anyone who believes the government is looking out for the best interests of the people is delusional - our government is looking out for their own interests... That's why progressives in government want to ban guns - not because people are being killed but because a gun is a tool that can be used against them. They know if they ban guns they can do whatever they want and all the people can do is accept that and do as they're told.

Quite frankly it generally takes a ****ed up authoritarian personality to even want to be a politician. Libertarians are only in politics to stop the rest of the authoritarian clowns - both republican and democrat..

Of course it is what it is and the general populace won't believe what I just said because they're being progressively brainwashed with the notion that government is here to "care for us" in any and all ways hence government can do what they want as a collective body just as long as they get their free table scraps... These pro-government clowns will choose security over liberty any day of the week just because it's the easier of the two choices.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
1) I'm not making anything up, I'm responding to exactly what you are saying. You're passionately arguing that we have nothing to worry about, which means you trust our government with this power.
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You're getting what you think I'm saying confused with what I'm actually saying.

2) Yes, it is new to me, because these capabilities have not been proven facts until now. The carnivore program didn't do the same thing this did. Once again, if we all already knew about it, why is the US government and the people all freaking out? (Because we didn't really know about it and the government didn't want us to know about it, hence the top secret)
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I don't know why you people do half the crap you do, honestly. Libertarians constantly bitch about slippery slopes, and where these violations are leading, and then when it's finally confirmed that these things are real and active, you people act like it's some totally unheard of thing that nobody could have ever possibly imagined.
 
Surtr said:
It's not "insider information", it's common sense. Do you honestly believe that the number of personnel they have has the capacity to scan hundreds of millions of mouse clicks, phone calls, and texts every second of the day? That's stupid. They'll be looking at specifically targeted areas for suspicious activity. Any idiot with half a brain and even the most basic knowledge of how the department of defense operates can figure that out.
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No, what's stupid is that you think that people are actually doing this. All they need to do is have a program monitor your information and if you say or write any key words, it takes that information, copies it, and sends it to a server to be stored.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
No, what's stupid is that you think that people are actually doing this. All they need to do is have a program monitor your information and if you say or write any key words, it takes that information, copies it, and sends it to a server to be stored.
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Why that's a great idea; we shall call this NarusInsight

LOL

Watch out! LMFAOL

But seriously, what on earth do you guys think the NSA does???
 
Mr. Invisible said:
No, what's stupid is that you think that people are actually doing this. All they need to do is have a program monitor your information and if you say or write any key words, it takes that information, copies it, and sends it to a server to be stored.
Click to expand...

What's really stupid is that you clearly didn't read the article.
 
greyhat said:
But seriously, what on earth do you guys think the NSA does???
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Signals Intelligence
Cyberattacks
Cyberespionage
Cyberdefense
Spying
Data mining
Surveillance
Code breaking
Encryption
Real-time monitoring
Wiretaps
Eavesdropping
 
Jango said:
Signals Intelligence
Cyberattacks
Cyberespionage
Cyberdefense
Spying
Data mining
Surveillance
Code breaking
Encryption
Real-time monitoring
Wiretaps
Eavesdropping
Click to expand...

Ok, just making sure...seems like some of you forget...
 
greyhat said:
It is overblown; it is sensationalized to appeal to American's core belief that their freedoms and privacy are sacred and are now under assault.

The reality is that these programs, which have been around for decades, are there to protect those freedoms. Carnivore, an FBI sniffer program, was around in the late 1990s..lets not get all worked up now. You assume the programs are targeted at you, which is pretty narcissistic btw; xkeyscore, which is old btw, wasn't designed to track your bs Internet activity LOL.

Jut look at how people react: "low level employees have access to my info..." I mean com'on, you make it sound like the 15 year old at McDonalds does. Low level employees at the NSA aren't the guy who sweeps the floor or asks if you want fries with your burger.
Click to expand...

Snowden was a low level employee for a private company.

People's passions are being stoked by this story. This is why people throw up The Fourth Amendment and make analogies to their physical persons being searched; the truth is that The Fourth Amendment doesn't cover you 100% within the electronic spectrum. In fact most references to it show how little people actually understand The Fourth Amendment.

There have been decades of legal precedent that have addressed pieces of this argument and programs. Some of you seem to think that the whole government is just one big rogue outfit. An elephant trampling on your rights; I don't deny that Uncle Sam screws shyt up all the time, but to extrapolate how one feels about government in general to how the IC operates or why they do what they do is beyond logic. I mean, what do you think the NSA does?

In the end history will clear up this whole debacle; IMO Snowden is a mole, and a rat, his whole job hopping campaign deeper and deeper into the infrastructure of these programs smells fishy. The guy worked at BA for three months before running to HK with all these secrets; his time line of activities do not make sense. This guy had help and IMO from the outside. He is no hero and your being misled.

The media and many have taken sympathy to this POS; however history will prove that you were misled...in the interim no amount of logic and facts will suffice for those of you with preconceived notions.
Click to expand...

It's hurting US Russian relationship. The US must want Snowden really bad to forgo a planned summit, signing treaties and whatever other repercussions against Russia they can think of. That suggests the leak is probably more serious than you care to believe.


One bright side....

The widespread uneasiness on the left was underscored last week during the House vote on whether to defund the NSA’s phone record collection program.

Much was made of the fact that nearly half of Republicans were in favor of the measure, despite a tradition in the post-Sept. 11, 2001, era of supporting such programs. It is perhaps equally notable that 111 of 194 House Democrats backed the measure, defying the Obama administration in doing so....
Asylum for NSA leaker Edward Snowden a challenge to U.S.-Russia relations - The Washington Post
 
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Re: XKeyStore

MaggieD said:
This is exactly the reason why this traitor belongs in jail. If you don't think the technology our government has at its beck and call is mind-blowing, I have a bridge to sell you. It's how they USE the technology that matters.
Click to expand...

He's a fricken hero in my book. He needs a reward. Like 100,000 and a vacation home in Hawaii.
 
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