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Obama to propose 'grand bargain' on corporate tax rate, infrastructure

Deuce said:
And what libertarians tend not to grasp is that this is a ****ty way to operate. That society is about more than just profit margins. The ideal business environment is not the ideal living environment.
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Yes, society is more than just about profit margins. But those profit margins are the source of all of our country's wealth.
 
Fisher said:
So cutting taxes on corporations will give the government more taxes to spend? As far as republicans go, Obama might go down as one of the best that has ever held the office :2razz:
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If govt gets more taxes, then technically its a tax increase. Obamas plan is to lower the tax rate, and then eliminate tax deductions such that a corporation ends up paying more tax in the end. Its a trick. AND THEN he plans to spend the extra money on liberal voting blocks. Sounds like standard Democrat policy.
 
apdst said:
This is a rate cut for the top bracket. It won't effect small business.
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This is a pretty smart political trick, actually. Obama gets away with proposing something liberals HATE (lowering taxes on evil corporations) and then gets to call republicans obstructionist when they dont like it (because its a dumb way of doing something)
 
polgara said:
I wondered why we weren't discussing the "job creation" part of his Grand Bargain. That affects more people than his attempt to tax offshore accounts. And why was this proposal made at an Amazon warehouse he was visiting, instead of Congress? It doesn't sound like he is too serious about this Grand Bargain! We shall see. :shrug:
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Good point. Obama doesnt know how to govern, so he goes back to the playbook and gives campaign speeches. This is where he can appear to be doing something without doing anything. He gets cheering people behind him, good media coverage, and then everyone moves on like nothing happened, other than all the pundits debate about it till the next thing comes along.
 
So at what point in this does Obama give anything up? He gets more tax revenue and he gets another job program all the while all the republicans get is their intelligence insulted.
 
Henrin said:
So at what point in this does Obama give anything up? He gets more tax revenue and he gets another job program all the while all the republicans get is their intelligence insulted.
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Lower taxes on corporations are indeed a republican win. Their masters will show their appreciation and throw their loyal dogs a bone or two as a reward. So republicans will benefit plenty.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Wait so it has to be a 100% win for you? No bipartisanship? And you wonder why **** never gets done huh?
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Why should we have to accept another job program when Obama can't even accept actually lowering taxes?
 
haymarket said:
Lower taxes on corporations are indeed a republican win. Their masters will show their appreciation and throw their loyal dogs a bone or two as a reward. So republicans will benefit plenty.
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You do realize they will turn out paying more, right? Are you really that easily tricked?
 
Henrin said:
Why should we have to accept another job program when Obama can't even accept actually lowering taxes?
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Makes you wonder why Obama supporters continue to buy the Obama rhetoric when not one of Obama's predictions has been accurate?
 
Tigger said:
He should be against that sort of legislation no matter WHO proposes it, and without having to read it. It's unConstitutional so far as I'm concerned; and unlikely to work even if it was legitimate legislation..
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Hearing you talk like you care about what is "Unconsitutional" is funny considering you are an authoritarian who would burn the Constitution if he could. Sorry, but you have no room to talk being an authoritarian that believes people shouldn't have given rights like the Constitution.
 
Conservative said:
Makes you wonder why Obama supporters continue to buy the Obama rhetoric when not one of Obama's predictions has been accurate?
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Maybe the GOP shouldn't have put up a lame ass like Romney. The GOP and YOU now get what you and the GOP deserve for that. Enjoy and live in the bed you and the GOP made.
 
This proposal is gaining zero support from all members of Congress.

As described by the WSJ, this can only be considered a bipartisan proposal if your beliefs fall into " the ideological spectrum running from Elizabeth Warren to Chuck Schumer"

If you want a true bipartisan approach, look to Baucus and Camp

Obama's 'Grand Bargain' Tax Plan Is Hard Sell to GOP : Roll Call Policy
Hatch said he hoped the administration would give Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., “some breathing room” on the tax code. Baucus has been traveling the country with House Ways and Means Chairman Dave Camp, R-Mich., to make the case for a tax policy overhaul, but any chances for a comprehensive rewrite seem unlikely this Congress.
And Obama’s push to make changes to corporate taxes only is certainly a far cry from the blank-slate approach Baucus and Camp have been trying to take toward the tax code.
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sawdust said:
What you have to understand is that unlike the Federal government, businesses have to make a profit to survive. They have to pay for all of their costs by passing their costs to consumers. They have to be competitive in their marketplace and to do that, all waste has to be eliminated. Profit isn't a dirty word. It's a goal without which no benefits are possible. It's not a crappy way to operate. It's a necessary way to operate and all businesses that survive long term operate that way. Sometimes we need to understand that we don't live in utopia.
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Standard, expected absolutist thinking from the libertarians. Again.
There's this gap between "ideal business environment" and "nobody gets to have profit" that you seem to have missed.

fmw said:
Yes, society is more than just about profit margins. But those profit margins are the source of all of our country's wealth.
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No, they aren't. Wealth is a result of work. Cashflow, including profit margins, is transfer of that wealth, not the source of it.
 
Deuce said:
Wealth is a result of work. Cashflow, including profit margins, is transfer of that wealth, not the source of it.
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Let's tweak that so that it makes sense and reflects reality, shall we?

Cashflow is not the transfer of wealth, per se. If I buy your product, I have exchanged my cash for your product. Unless your product is worthless, my wealth didn't actually decrease. If your product is a house, for example, I might be wealthier than I was before I bought your house, depending on what I paid for it compared to the value of it. Wealth isn't just money. It's all your assets; everything you own. It is your assets minus your liabilities. That's wealth.

Cashflow can be negative or positive in regard to your wealth. So you are right... cashflow isn't the source of wealth but neither is it, necessarily, the transfer of wealth.

If you want to know the real basis for wealth, it's this: Be good at trading and produce more than you consume. If you do that, you'll get wealthier.
 
TheNextEra said:
Hearing you talk like you care about what is "Unconsitutional" is funny considering you are an authoritarian who would burn the Constitution if he could. Sorry, but you have no room to talk being an authoritarian that believes people shouldn't have given rights like the Constitution.
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I believe that every nation needs a founding, Constitutional document, TNE. I don't believe I've ever said otherwise. What I disagree with is the seriously flawed nature of the US Constitution. One of it's major flaws is the lack of a means to ensure the document is being followed, and the ease in which it can be ignored or modified. Among it's other flaws are the lack of inclusion of the Duties and Responsibilities of a Citizen, a much clearer definition of who can be allowed to be a Citizen, and not tying those things to the ability to avail oneself of the "fights and privileges" of citizenship.
 
Tigger said:
I believe that every nation needs a founding, Constitutional document, TNE. I don't believe I've ever said otherwise. What I disagree with is the seriously flawed nature of the US Constitution. One of it's major flaws is the lack of a means to ensure the document is being followed, and the ease in which it can be ignored or modified. Among it's other flaws are the lack of inclusion of the Duties and Responsibilities of a Citizen, a much clearer definition of who can be allowed to be a Citizen, and not tying those things to the ability to avail oneself of the "fights and privileges" of citizenship.
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In other words, not the Consitution we have now. So again, my point stands that it is amusing you seeming to care about the Consitution when you don't approve of it anyway.
 
Deuce said:
Standard, expected absolutist thinking from the libertarians. Again.
There's this gap between "ideal business environment" and "nobody gets to have profit" that you seem to have missed.



No, they aren't. Wealth is a result of work. Cashflow, including profit margins, is transfer of that wealth, not the source of it.
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No they are the source of it. Work is an element in earning the gross profit.
 
TheNextEra said:
In other words, not the Consitution we have now. So again, my point stands that it is amusing you seeming to care about the Consitution when you don't approve of it anyway.
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I approve of the concept and I am of the opinion that those founding documents are the inviolatable law of the land. Therefore, whild I disagree with large parts of what's in the US Constitution, I do believe it should be followed to the letter until it is amended or replaced.
 
Tigger said:
Therefore, whild I disagree with large parts of what's in the US Constitution, I do believe it should be followed to the letter until it is amended or replaced.
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Fair enough
 
TheNextEra said:
Maybe the GOP shouldn't have put up a lame ass like Romney. The GOP and YOU now get what you and the GOP deserve for that. Enjoy and live in the bed you and the GOP made.
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Romney was a much better qualified individual that Obama. The country is getting what it deserves for electing an incompetent for a second term. You see results don't matter to someone like you. I am for cleaning house completely starting with Obama.
 
Henrin said:
So at what point in this does Obama give anything up? He gets more tax revenue and he gets another job program all the while all the republicans get is their intelligence insulted.
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Playing devils advocate he thinks that lowering the high income corp tax rate alone is a big give away. Its just not equal to what he wants, less deductions and more spending. If he wants more spending, it has to be offset with cuts. If he wants less deductions it has to be revenue neutral.

A true Grand Bargain would be something like Simpson Bowles, or passing a budget with moderate spending cuts and reprioritizing spending towards things he likes.
 
Conservative said:
Romney was a much better qualified individual that Obama. The country is getting what it deserves for electing an incompetent for a second term. You see results don't matter to someone like you. I am for cleaning house completely starting with Obama.
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:yawn: your political partisan hackery is boring. I didn't vote for Obama. And yes, you and the GOP ARE getting the president you deserve for putting up a lame ass like Romney. Tell your GOP to do better next time or keep dealing with Dem presidents.

You follow and worship the Dem/Rep duopoly, you get what you deserve.
 
Conservative said:
That probably has to do with the fact that my education taught me the role of the Federal Govt. and then I had 35 years of actual real life business experience. Too bad you have been brainwashed by a failed ideology that doesn't understand the role of the govt. or how the private sector works.
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:lamo Ok whatever you say all wise one on the internet.
 
Henrin said:
Why should we have to accept another job program when Obama can't even accept actually lowering taxes?
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Thats literally what he is doing here!!! Lowering taxes..
 
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