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Thread: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

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    Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    In addition to all of your other wonderful attributes you are also a psychologist? Amazing and fantastic.
    Psychiatrist; amazing huh?! Here is my Rx for you: take two pills of Realitux each day; one in the AM and one in the evening. Enjoy!

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    “If this [NSA phone surveillance] came up to the Supreme Court with this Supreme Court, they would declare it unconstitutional,” Laura Murphy, director of the ACLU’s Washington legislative office....

    ....Geoffrey Stone, a University of Chicago law professor who worked at the school with President Barack Obama, said the ACLU’s position is “reasonable,” but he doesn’t see the court issuing a ruling that shuts down the phone surveillance program....

    ...And based strictly on existing Supreme Court case law, says George Washington University law professor Orin Kerr, the group’s arguments are “weak.”And this time around, says Kerr, “the ACLU’s goal is probably to get discovery” — to force the government to declassify more information about the programs — “not to win.”....

    ....But even skeptics of the ACLU’s chances concede the potential for progress. Edward Snowden’s leaks to The Guardian and The Washington Post may not lead to a wholesale dismantling of the NSA’s dragnet surveillance efforts — but the revelations could force the high court to reevaluate its interpretations of privacy law.....

    ....Freedom Watch, a group led by former Justice Department official Larry Klayman, has filed two class action suits: one over phone surveillance and a second over PRISM, the NSA’s system of surveillance of the Internet activities of non-U.S. citizens abroad....

    ....(Rand) Paul has launched an effort to gather the support of Americans who would potentially want to sign onto a class action suit, and is working with lawyers to determine whether to sign on to the ACLU suit, join another existing suit or launch a new one....

    ....Filing suit within days of the emergence of new information was “to some degree reflexive” for the ACLU, said Stephen Vladeck, a law professor at American University who successfully challenged the Bush administration’s use of military tribunals at the Guantánamo Bay detention facility. “But I think they’re some of the brightest lawyers around, and they don’t file these things willy nilly,” he added. “It’s pretty clear off the bat what the issues are.”.....

    ....this case doesn’t face the same hurdles” on those grounds that torpedoed previous suits, [standing] said Patrick Toomey, a national security attorney working on the case for the ACLU....

    ...And if the courts do move forward, they will in part be looking to the precedent of the Supreme Court’s 1979 ruling in Smith v. Maryland. In that case, Justice Harry Blackmun wrote that “a person has no legitimate expectation of privacy in information he voluntarily turns over to third parties.”

    With the development of new technology, some justices have begun to voice doubts about that decision. When the court ruled in 2012 that the government could not track a suspect using a GPS device attached to his car without getting a warrant, Justice Sonia Sotomayor wrote in a concurring opinion that the approach established by Smith “is ill suited to the digital age, in which people reveal a great deal of information about themselves to third parties in the course of carrying out mundane tasks.”...


    ....The ACLU isn’t the only group to have taken legal action since the revelation of details of the phone-tracking and PRISM programs: Snowden’s leaks have translated into renewed support for legal efforts across the political spectrum.

    Freedom Watch, a group led by former Justice Department official Larry Klayman, has filed two class action suits: one over phone surveillance and a second over PRISM, the NSA’s system of surveillance of the Internet activities of non-U.S. citizens abroad....

    Read more: Experts: NSA lawsuit could break new legal ground - Jennifer Epstein - POLITICO.com
    I don't think anyone doubted that there were people that didn't think it was legal, either. The fact of the matter is everyone who knows all the evidence presented and why came to the conclusion that it was constitutional, save possibly one. That's a majority, whether you like it or not.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Yes. I was Military Intelligence. Tactical Intel and strategic sigint. Muddy boots and class A uniforms. I spent about half of my time below Corps level and half of my time at Corps level and above.

    My areas of interest were the Great Patriotic War, WWII in general, the history of mobile armored warfare, surprise, deception and intelligence in general, the history of intelligence, codes, cyphers and systems, strategy, operational art and tactics. I regularly read the History of the Peleopnesian War, Machiavelli's Discourses, Sun Tzu, Jomini and Clausewitz.

    I have read quite a bit about Islamofascism. Frankly I am glad I am not an Intello today because all of their names sound the same. I know they shouldn't. I started learning classical Arabic, routinely practicing with a Lebanese American. When he moved away I stopped.

    Any good student knows to use the resources available to him. I daily dip into a wide variety of sites gleaned from a carefully crafted Tweetdeck. Not one of those involves military or political history. Maybe I will fix that.

    My time in the foxhole was between the end of the Viet-nam war and the start of Gulf War I. I was manning the desk during the first scud launch.

    So sneer if you must. I am very comfortable either way.
    So not really intelligence collection in an asymmetric war at all. I can see the issue.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    You don't get to spy on Americans. Period.
    You keep saying this. Just because you say it doesn't make it true. Unfortunately for you, in a representative government, Misterveritis from debatepolitics.com doesn't get to have everything exactly as he wants it. You're not the Tsar, bro.

    If you keep it up we will take the measures we can. Eventually if you take peaceful recourse from us then we will use what remains. I see enormous monkey-wrenching in our future.
    Aren't calls for violence against the TOS here? You keep doing it. I see a monkey-wrench in your future here.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    I don't think anyone doubted that there were people that didn't think it was legal, either. The fact of the matter is everyone who knows all the evidence presented and why came to the conclusion that it was constitutional, save possibly one. That's a majority, whether you like it or not.
    Just think, if they had Chertoff and Yoo, it would have been a majority +2

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Just think, if they had Chertoff and Yoo, it would have been a majority +2
    Right, "just think". That's my advice for you, katsung junior.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    Psychiatrist; amazing huh?! Here is my Rx for you: take two pills of Realitux each day; one in the AM and one in the evening. Enjoy!
    Fantastic. Have I mentioned I attended charm school?

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    So not really intelligence collection in an asymmetric war at all. I can see the issue.
    To some degree all wars are asymmetric. We always attempt to attack our enemies in ways they are unable or unwilling to defend against. The issue is your lack of imagination.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    You keep saying this. Just because you say it doesn't make it true. Unfortunately for you, in a representative government, Misterveritis from debatepolitics.com doesn't get to have everything exactly as he wants it. You're not the Tsar, bro.
    Snowden has awakened a sleeping giant. I am surprised that you do not see the growing rage. At town halls citizens are asking their reps why they support the NSA spying on American citizens.

    I recognize that you are part of the problem and are unlikely to ever be part of the solution. There were Tories in the first Revolution. There will be Statists in the next. You are a statist. I get it.

    Aren't calls for violence against the TOS here? You keep doing it. I see a monkey-wrench in your future here.
    Do you think my prediction is a call to violence? I see what is coming very clearly. There are a few hundred million armed citizens that are becoming very frustrated by this government. We will fight you every way we can. And in the end we win. You lose.

    We have a rendezvous with destiny. And you are on the wrong side.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    To some degree all wars are asymmetric. We always attempt to attack our enemies in ways they are unable or unwilling to defend against. The issue is your lack of imagination.
    No. Sorry. Poor answer.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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