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Thread: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    "COINTELPRO tactics have been alleged to include discrediting targets through psychological warfare; smearing individuals and groups using forged documents and by planting false reports in the media; harassment; wrongful imprisonment; and illegal violence, including assassination.[3][4][5]...............

    FBI records show that 85% of COINTELPRO resources targeted groups and individuals that the FBI deemed "subversive",[7] including communist and socialist organizations; organizations and individuals associated with the civil rights movement, including Martin Luther King, Jr. and others associated with the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, and the Congress of Racial Equality and other civil rights organizations; black nationalist groups; the American Indian Movement; a broad range of organizations labeled "New Left", including Students for a Democratic Society and the Weathermen; almost all groups protesting the Vietnam War, as well as individual student demonstrators with no group affiliation; the National Lawyers Guild; organizations and individuals associated with the women's rights movement; nationalist groups such as those seeking independence for Puerto Rico, United Ireland, and Cuban exile movements including Orlando Bosch's Cuban Power and the Cuban Nationalist Movement; and additional notable Americans —even Albert Einstein, who was a socialist and a member of several civil rights groups, came under FBI surveillance during the years just before COINTELPRO's official inauguration.[8] The remaining 15% of COINTELPRO resources were expended to marginalize and subvert white hate groups, including the Ku Klux Klan and the National States' Rights Party.[9]...........

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    Last edited by Hard Truth; 08-05-13 at 07:58 PM.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    The final report of the Church Committee concluded:

    Too many people have been spied upon by too many Government agencies and too much information has been collected. The Government has often undertaken the secret surveillance of citizens on the basis of their political beliefs, even when those beliefs posed no threat of violence or illegal acts on behalf of a hostile foreign power. The Government, operating primarily through secret informants, but also using other intrusive techniques such as wiretaps, microphone "bugs", surreptitious mail opening, and break-ins, has swept in vast amounts of information about the personal lives, views, and associations of American citizens. Investigations of groups deemed potentially dangerous -- and even of groups suspected of associating with potentially dangerous organizations -- have continued for decades, despite the fact that those groups did not engage in unlawful activity.

    Groups and individuals have been harassed and disrupted because of their political views and their lifestyles. Investigations have been based upon vague standards whose breadth made excessive collection inevitable. Unsavory and vicious tactics have been employed -- including anonymous attempts to break up marriages, disrupt meetings, ostracize persons from their professions, and provoke target groups into rivalries that might result in deaths. Intelligence agencies have served the political and personal objectives of presidents and other high officials. While the agencies often committed excesses in response to pressure from high officials in the Executive branch and Congress, they also occasionally initiated improper activities and then concealed them from officials whom they had a duty to inform.

    Governmental officials -- including those whose principal duty is to enforce the law --have violated or ignored the law over long periods of time and have advocated and defended their right to break the law.

    The Constitutional system of checks and balances has not adequately controlled intelligence activities. Until recently the Executive branch has neither delineated the scope of permissible activities nor established procedures for supervising intelligence agencies. Congress has failed to exercise sufficient oversight, seldom questioning the use to which its appropriations were being put. Most domestic intelligence issues have not reached the courts, and in those cases when they have reached the courts, the judiciary has been reluctant to grapple with them.[59][60]"

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    Last edited by Hard Truth; 08-05-13 at 08:09 PM.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    And then the Church Committee created FISA courts.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    And then the Church Committee created FISA courts.
    and many of the post-Church committee reforms were watered-down, eliminated or ignored after 9/11 and the passage of the Patriot Act etc.

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    Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    And then the Church Committee created FISA courts.
    Oh yes, Church and Pike- the HUMINT emasculators. Nice!

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    and many of the post-Church committee reforms, watered-down, eliminated or ignored after 9/11 and the passage of the Patriot Act etc.
    Nah.

    I'm still amazed that people can't just come to terms with the idea that many (most, frankly) legal experts don't think this is unconstitutional.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ...I am not convinced that the NSA program violates the Constitution?
    So you are making the implied case that gathering data on all Americans is a legal search?

    Interesting - can you show Sessions' statements on this program? Shelby I trust... well, that's not true, I can throw some people quite far, depending on leverage, and how I'm feeling at the moment.
    No. Wisdom gives me the opportunity to judge things for which I have no compelling evidence.
    Last edited by Misterveritis; 08-05-13 at 08:56 PM.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ...I am not convinced that the NSA program violates the Constitution?
    I believe you to be a very honorable man. Are you telling me that you have direct knowledge of this program and the NSA is not gathering data on American citizens? If you tell me that you have direct knowledge of this program and that it is not gathering data on every one of us then I shall reconsider my stance.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    Maybe some of us don't ascribe to the notion that constitutionality is determined by one sole individual (ie you or I) but rather by law, with SCOTUS being the ultimate adjudicator.

    If you believe the programs are unconstitutional then I recommend that you take legal action; sue the government if you'd like to, although you'll find that you lack legal standing therefore rendering your argument pointless.
    Yes. More obstacles. Some of us are able to read the Constitution and get it.

    Some cannot and prefer the growing tyranny. Do you believe you will escape its effects? Or do you intend to be dead before the worst gets here?

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    The ACLU, EFF and other have tried and the reason they've failed is because they lack legal standing. The intel committee are made of congressmen so if Rep John Doe is denied is bc he isn't a member of the committee and is not authorized to have access to this- that's why a committee exists.
    If it is not fixable the problem will eventually be decided through the force of arms. What a shame to see this magnificent country die without even a whimper. When you take away every legal option than all that is left is force. Isn't that why revolts occur?

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