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Thread: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    lol?

    This was the exchange:

    So why did you feel the need to respond to my attitude but not his? Is he small and insecure, too? lol Nice try, buddy. He attempted to tell me that SIGINT was part of IT. It's not even close. Even you should know that. Now why did only one person's attitude pique your interest? Hmmmm.
    This is a reasonable question. I took his question to mean that you did not understand IT to mean information technology.

    There is no such possible misunderstanding about sigint. It is not an it.

    "I don't think you understand what it is." or "I don't think you understand what IT is. (He could have only been emphasizing the word it.)

    He meant information technology.

    Of course my thoughts on your side of the equation come from reading more of your messages and seeing the attitude you post in many of them. I assume you are a smart guy in your 30s with way more maturing to do.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    .....I really don't understand people who believe all politicians are bent on destroying or undermining the very society that voted them into office. I think such beliefs are simply unfounded and make no sense at all. And I scratch my head at why they continue to live in such a society instead of moving to a more favorable one. And I would be curious where in the world they would move that would be more favorable?
    I never said that about all politicians. I do think most are willing to bend a few rules or act against the public interest in a covert way to get elected, to get another bill they consider more important passed, or to get an endorsement or campaign contribution. The quality of our particular government is not the primary problem, human nature is the problem. I don't like giving too much power to anyone.


    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    I don't know anyone who believes that civil rights does not extend to technology and media.
    Several people I have debated in this forum claim that privacy protection laws should no apply to cell phones and e-mail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    I think when you say that, you are being purposely dishonest. There is a debate as to what constitutes a civil right and what does not, but I don't know anyone that believes civil rights does not extend to technology and media.
    Films were censored by the government for decades, television and radio is censored by the government except late at night, and there have been numerous attempts to to impose censorship on audio recordings and the internet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Now you have labeled me. Interestingly, even after I have made the statement that I am against the use of technology to needlessly spy on ordinary, law abiding people just going about their business. At least, without due cause or reason which would have to be filtered thru a process that has to answer to the judiciary system.
    I don't think we agree on the parameters of inappropriate spying. I consider government collection of data that citizens reasonably think is kept confidential by the vendors they use (i.e cellphone and internet metadata and content) an invasion of privacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    I do believe people have the right to privacy as far as they are willing to protect their own information. I don't think it should be solely up to the government to protect your information. It's your information! And if you leave it solely up to the government, or anyone else other than yourself, then you yourself are partially complicit in your own demise.
    I believe that government regulations should require genuine informed consent when businesses collect confidential information from customers. The other issue is government collection, retention and analyses of confidential personal information, which beyond certain information necessary for tax collection etc., should require a specific warrant or genuine informed consent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    However, we see today that people are willing to give up privacy for technology and convinience. People are voting with their participation in social networking. Which is booming in our society and it is something I don't think you will ever be able to get rid of. Since it is something we will never get rid of, we will also never get rid of the potential our information is at risk of being used by others to harm us. Social media will only continue to grow and become more intrusive. It is a trend that once it has started, it will only grow. You can either embrace that as most have, or you can disconnect yourself from it. No one forces you to be a part of it.
    You may be right about the enduring popularity of social media. I don't think people have given genuinely informed consent to the collection of confidential personal information and the sharing of that information with the governement for retention and analyses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Here we go with the fearmongering again. I don't even know if I want to even tackle the above comment other than to say that if you actually believe the government is going to go thru the trouble to spy on any one individual just because, then nothing I can say will convince you otherwise. I would be wasting my time and would rather allow you to waste your time building that soundproof bunker 100 feet below ground then waste my time explaining to you how ridiculous doing something like that would be.
    I don't think the government is going to spy on just anybody. I think they are mostly going to spy on legitimate criminal suspects and enemies of the governement. But, if individual government employees, contractors and elected officials are not carefully monitored and effectively prevented from misusing these tools and information, it will be used for personal or political gain or revenge.

    Since they will not always be carefully monitored and effectively prevented from misusing these tools and information, abuses will happen. That is human nature.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 08-05-13 at 12:02 AM.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Ah. Of course. If you disagree with something, that means it's broken. Perfect logic. I thought you weren't going to deal with me?
    It is a sickness. I have deluded myself into believing there is still some hope for you.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Ah. Of course. If you disagree with something, that means it's broken. Perfect logic. I thought you weren't going to deal with me?
    If everyone is willing to support unconstitutional acts because they can get away with them then the system is broken. We will need a reset.

    Let's start with Mark Levin's idea and his leadership. If that fails the next generation can have an armed insurrection. We really do look like France in the period before their revolution, don't we?

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    It really does not matter at all to me.

    I really don't understand why people are being so alarmist about such a thing.
    I attribute it to a failure of imagination.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    Not only do you not have a clue on the DOJ or banking regulation for that matter, but you clearly lack a clue on the IC and its function...any other tangents you would like to go on? Big Foot, Area 51..?

    Google and Facebook know more about you than the NSA, clearly they don't need help LOL
    I've suspected you of being a know nothing blowhard throughout this thread, now I have confirmation. You give the banks a complete pass... you can't be trusted, at all. If you're so naive that you don't think there are wealthy, powerful people who salivate over abusing all that juicy data for their own purposes, you're a fool. They've manipulated and played the financial markets since the dawn of civilization. They're entrenched in the military industrial complex. Yet you think they wouldn't work to get their hands all over this as well? You're a sucker if you don't see the risk.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    Well if you're not happy with them, vote for the other guy. Although you may find that they won't be too different in practice; that's because it's all ideologically great until your face with the reality of the world.
    Which, if true, means the system is broken and needs either repair or to be hauled to the curb to be taken away with the rest of the trash.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    Don't be an enemy combatant and you won't get turned into pink dust by a drone!

    I'd personally press the "fire button" and blow up any Joe Schmo that takes arms against the USA.
    I will predict to you that if you and yours keep it up you and your children will probably get that chance.

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    Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Which, if true, means the system is broken and needs either repair or to be hauled to the curb to be taken away with the rest of the trash.
    The system isn't broken; what's broken are the archaic ideas you based your analysis on. Failure to evolve works against you in nature, and so does it in war.

    The reality is that The AUMF (and The PATRIOT Act) which serves as the legal basis for many of these activities is legal- you may not like it [now], but don't forget OUR government created and approved these laws by an overwhelming majority. Although I need not remind you that SIGINT is an intel discipline as old as communications.
    Last edited by greyhat; 08-05-13 at 12:16 AM.

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    Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    I've suspected you of being a know nothing blowhard throughout this thread, now I have confirmation. You give the banks a complete pass... you can't be trusted, at all. If you're so naive that you don't think there are wealthy, powerful people who salivate over abusing all that juicy data for their own purposes, you're a fool. They've manipulated and played the financial markets since the dawn of civilization. They're entrenched in the military industrial complex. Yet you think they wouldn't work to get their hands all over this as well? You're a sucker if you don't see the risk.
    The conspiracy theories thread is elsewhere LOL

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