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Thread: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

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    Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    One of them did nothing to deserve being killed. His killing was probably a mistake.

    Another one arguably didn't either, since he was NOT active as a terrorist, he was a propagandist. (Samir Kahn)

    The other two were not on a battlefied, were not in a country we declared war on, and were not engaged in battle when assassinated by remote control.
    One may have been collateral damage; the others were legitimate targets. Saying that Kahn was not a terrorist is like saying Joseph Goebbels was not a Nazi...

    Hey were killed as per the laws of war

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Capster78 your arguments are as good as posible for your side. The bottom line is that you trust the technology, government and politicans more than I do. I also reject the argument that has historically always been used by those who don't prioritize civil liberties: that the civil rights protected in the constitution don't apply to new technology and media.

    But let me ask you, and any other pro surveillance-state advocate, this: Do you believe the residents of the USA have a right to privacy and how should it be applied? When and where should our privacy be protected?

    It seems to me that your* argument is that it doesn't apply to: phone calls, radio communications, texts, e-mails, at work, on the web, in your garbage, while doing business, in a vehicle, on parts of your property that can be viewed from the water, ground or air, or anywhere in public. That leaves only private conversations and activities that take place in your sound-proofed home when all the windows are covered, if they can not be detected by infrared, sonar, radar or other technology.

    *and several presidential administrations and courts in many, but not all, cases
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 08-04-13 at 10:16 PM.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    Hey were killed as per the laws of war
    The top Nazi leaders who survived the war were put on trial.

    Whose rules? Not the Geneva conventions.

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    Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Whose rules? Not the Geneva conventions.
    The Rules of War. When terrorist put on a uniform we'll apply the GCs.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    The Rules of War. When terrorist put on a uniform we'll apply the GCs.
    I guess you mean the rules that the Bush II administration just made up and the Obama administration continues to use, not any legitimate laws such as the constitution or any of the treaties we ratified.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    More handwaving out of you, as well ad homs. And you talk about crazy suppositions? LOL.
    Ummm...yeah? You didn't make a single point in that post. What did you want? Just someone to agree with all your assumptions? Wtf?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I guess you mean the rules that the Bush II administration just made up and the Obama administration continues to use, not any legitimate laws such as the constitution or any of the treaties we ratified.
    The AUMF (PL 107-40) was created and authorized by Congress therefore it is law. It passed 420-1-10 in The House and 98-0-2 in The Senate. Doesn't sound made up now does it???

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Capster78 your arguments are as good as posible for your side. The bottom line is that you trust the technology, government and politicans more than I do.
    I don't trust them, which is why I think embracing the technology is important. Now I would probably agree that you distrust them more than I do. I really don't understand people who believe all politicians are bent on destroying or undermining the very society that voted them into office. I think such beliefs are simply unfounded and make no sense at all. And I scratch my head at why they continue to live in such a society instead of moving to a more favorable one. And I would be curious where in the world they would move that would be more favorable?

    I also reject the argument that has historically always been used by those who don't prioritize civil liberties: that the civil rights protected in the constitution don't apply to new technology and media.
    I would agree with that statement. I don't know anyone who believes that civil rights does not extend to technology and media. I think when you say that, you are being purposely dishonest. There is a debate as to what constitutes a civil right and what does not, but I don't know anyone that believes civil rights does not extend to technology and media.

    But let me ask you, and any other pro surveillance-state advocate, this: Do you believe the residents of the USA have a right to privacy and how should it be applied? When and where should our privacy be protected?
    Now you have labeled me. Interestingly, even after I have made the statement that I am against the use of technology to needlessly spy on ordinary, law abiding people just going about their business. At least, without due cause or reason which would have to be filtered thru a process that has to answer to the judiciary system.

    I do believe people have the right to privacy as far as they are willing to protect their own information. I don't think it should be solely up to the government to protect your information. It's your information! And if you leave it solely up to the government, or anyone else other than yourself, then you yourself are partially complicit in your own demise. However, we see today that people are willing to give up privacy for technology and convinience. People are voting with their participation in social networking. Which is booming in our society and it is something I don't think you will ever be able to get rid of. Since it is something we will never get rid of, we will also never get rid of the potential our information is at risk of being used by others to harm us. Social media will only continue to grow and become more intrusive. It is a trend that once it has started, it will only grow. You can either embrace that as most have, or you can disconnect yourself from it. No one forces you to be a part of it.

    It seems to me that your* argument is that it doesn't apply to: phone calls, radio communications, texts, e-mails, at work, on the web, in your garbage, while doing business, in a vehicle, on parts of your property that can be viewed from the water, ground or air, or anywhere in public. That leaves only private conversations and activities that take place in your sound-proofed home when all the windows are covered, if they can not be detected by infrared, sonar, radar or other technology.
    Here we go with the fearmongering again. I don't even know if I want to even tackle the above comment other than to say that if you actually believe the government is going to go thru the trouble to spy on any one individual just because, then nothing I can say will convince you otherwise. I would be wasting my time and would rather allow you to waste your time building that soundproof bunker 100 feet below ground then waste my time explaining to you how ridiculous doing something like that would be.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Being that our "justice departments" have given the banks a free pass to do whatever they like. How much of a stretch is it that our intelligence communities will partner with corporations to do "more" with this data?

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    Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Being that our "justice departments" have given the banks a free pass to do whatever they like. How much of a stretch is it that our intelligence communities will partner with corporations to do "more" with this data?
    Not only do you not have a clue on the DOJ or banking regulation for that matter, but you clearly lack a clue on the IC and its function...any other tangents you would like to go on? Big Foot, Area 51..?

    Google and Facebook know more about you than the NSA, clearly they don't need help LOL

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