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Thread: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    The people they voted into office did. That's the way this system of governance works. If you don't like this system, you can try to change it or move.
    You didn't answer the question: So U.S. citizens want to be spied on by their government?

    I don't care, in this exact instance, what the representatives want but instead, normal every day Americans. Do they want their government spying on them?

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    No, I'm not.



    I don't need to prove myself.



    Why wouldn't it?



    No. There's an oversight manager for everyone.

    This isn't IT. It's not close to the same thing.
    So anyone with access can run around and do anything. Then an "oversight manager" will take a look at what they've been doing and decide if any of it is inappropriate? Really? This can't... really... be. how they do it? That is crazy sloppy and prone for recklessness. Why on earth would they not code rules...?? Come on you have to be making this up.

    Anyone such as Snowden has the whole spying system at their fingertips and only after the fact does anyone notice what happened? That's retarded.

    I call bull sh1t.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    It really does not matter at all to me.

    First of all, the amount of information that exists to be tapped into is so great, no one computer could possibly contain it.

    Second of all, even if there existed a computer that could contain all information for all internet users, it would be virtually impossible to process it into any kind of meaningful data to do anything with it. In essence, if you are concerned with your privacy you may even WANT this type of program to exist because it would be so ineffective that the amount of information gathered would cover any useful or personal information that would be gathered on any one individual. Now, what could be concerning is the targeted use of this technology, and not the blanket use of it. There does need to be a process in which those who use this technology must provide a lawful reason to do so. Saying this, I think we can conclude that the majority of us would never be effected by the use of this technology. Why would anyone use this technology against someone when the information gathered is of no use at all. Which is the category the vast majority of us are in. I am not sure where much of this fear comes from, where someone may use this technology to find out that your cheating on your wife or husband. Or that maybe you watch beastiality porn on the internet. Or that you were secretly rooting for the Steelers while all your friends were Ravens fans. For the most part, the vast majority of us live a life that is really not interesting enough for anyone to care to spy on us. No one really cares about the conversation you had with your mother-in-law over the phone about family matters. No one really cares about your fetish for S&M and all those S&M websites you visit. No one really cares about your religious trips to starbucks to start out the day before work. On the whole, 99.999999% of the information that could be gathered by a system that tracks every internet users use online, or phone conversations, or by your out and about errands are useless. Saying that, I really don't understand why people are being so alarmist about such a thing.
    (Sorry folks, this is a repeat post, but apparently Capster 78 did not read it since it addresses most of his questions and assertions)

    I recently did a search on Google for a particular type of product and now I see adverts for that type of product popping up on various websites that are not related to that product or connected to Google directly. Now thousands of people may know about my interest in that product. Many of those people probably also know about my interest in other types of products and other interests as revealed by my history of Google searches, the YouTube videos I watched, my Facebook activity, and at least some of the other websites I visit. Someone with access to just my Google database can know more about me than my brother knows.

    The government can access that same info and combine it with my telephone and utilitiy records, e-mail history, property records, criminal record, driver's license and vehicle registration info, public school records, social security and tax records. Much of that information is accessible by anyone. (as seen by the targeted junk mail you get) Anyone with access to all that info can know more about me than my spouse.

    With nearly everyone in the system there is so much data that there is a very slight possibility that any one individual is going to be selected for deeper investigation. The technology required to make sense and practical use of all that raw date is still relatively primitive compared to its potential. That is why the supporters of a surveillance state reassure us that we are not likely to be targeted. However, all that information compiled on nearly everyone in the USA in a sophisticated database enables authorities to target individuals, find connections between people and organizations and detect all sorts of trends and behavior patterns.

    Read the news stories on how the Chinese government is using information on citizen's internet use. I don't think it is at all farfetched to say that our government has the ability to disrupt political movements such as Occupy or the Tea Party before they even get started. They can potentially use their massive information database in conjunction with old fashioned investigative work, political dirty tricks, COINTELPRO type tactics and advertisng/marketing techniques to achieve virtually any type of political, social or marketing goal. If they can't do it right now, they will be able to do it in the near future.

    With that much power in the hands of government, democracy becomes a farce. Perhaps it is not being abused yet. But all it will take is one person with a high level of access and a malicious or misguided agenda for many lives to be ruined. Mistakes will be made. Technology and privileges will be abused. Power and money will corrupt government officals. Bad, mentally ill or misguided people will be in positions of power.

    You don't have to believe that there is any kind of evil plan or bad people in power at this time to conclude that this is too much power for any small group of people to have. It is akin to nuclear weapons. We are fortunate that, thanks to a lot of security and prevention effort, there have not been any nuclear wars or terrorist use of nuclear weapons yet. But the level of risk is proportional to the number of weapons that exist, no matter how hard we try to keep things under control.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 08-04-13 at 06:29 PM.

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    Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post

    I don't care, in this exact instance, what the representatives want but instead, normal every day Americans. ?
    You may want to brush up on your Government 101...the index should have something on representative democracy..just a clue to start you off.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    You may want to brush up on your Government 101...the index should have something on representative democracy..just a clue to start you off.
    Again, if it is representative democracy, then who exactly are the representatives representing? What percentage of their actual constituents want this dragnet surveillance that envelopes their phone and Internet communications? I mean, since we're the ones paying for this ****, and most are now more clearly worried about privacy instead of terrorism, it shows that our reps aren't doing their job.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    You didn't answer the question: So U.S. citizens want to be spied on by their government?
    I don't know. Do you?

    I don't care, in this exact instance, what the representatives want but instead, normal every day Americans. Do they want their government spying on them?
    I don't know. Do you?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    So anyone with access can run around and do anything. Then an "oversight manager" will take a look at what they've been doing and decide if any of it is inappropriate? Really? This can't... really... be. how they do it? That is crazy sloppy and prone for recklessness. Why on earth would they not code rules...?? Come on you have to be making this up.
    Nope. They do it so people can access what they need to access. If it's wrong, they'll pay for it later.

    Anyone such as Snowden has the whole spying system at their fingertips and only after the fact does anyone notice what happened? That's retarded.
    lol Snowden didn't have access. Again: this isn't IT.

    I call bull sh1t.
    Call whatever you want.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Nope. They do it so people can access what they need to access. If it's wrong, they'll pay for it later.



    lol Snowden didn't have access. Again: this isn't IT.



    Call whatever you want.
    The article says Snowden and other "low-level" employees have complete access. That's what the whole thread is about? Wtf planet are you on?

    So you're saying the article is bs? Which is fine, which is what I'm asking...

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    Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    Again, if it is representative democracy, then who exactly are the representatives representing? What percentage of their actual constituents want this dragnet surveillance that envelopes their phone and Internet communications? I mean, since we're the ones paying for this ****, and most are now more clearly worried about privacy instead of terrorism, it shows that our reps aren't doing their job.
    Call your congressmen and find out.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    The article says Snowden and other "low-level" employees have complete access. That's what the whole thread is about? Wtf planet are you on?
    lol, they don't.

    So you're saying the article is bs? Which is fine, which is what I'm asking...
    Sure. IT guys don't have access to raw SIGINT.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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