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Thread: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Why didn't you answer my questions before firing back with your own? Very odd. Are you capable of just answering a plain question? What did you tell your Congressman?
    You are a strange duck.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    LOL- you obviously have an ax to grind with Uncle Sam and no amount of logic will fix how you see the world. No one is spying on you- Facebook knows more about you than the NSA LOL
    What the hell are you even talking about? Your response has nothing to do with anything I've said.

    Nobody is spying on me? If you had even the foggiest clue what this is all about, you'd understand they're spying on everyone. No they are not specifically targeting me, but they are passively collecting information on what I do, aka spying. Now I'm not necessarily worried right now that this information will be used against me in some awful way considering I'm not a terrorist. However it does leave the door wide open for abuse in the future. Being that most of what they do is done in secret, how would we hold them accountable? Who is going to stop them from abusing this information?

    When the taser was first introduced to police officers it was intended to only be used in place of lethal force. Rather than having to kill somebody who is posing a danger they could taze them instead. Look at what it is used for now. If you do not comply with their verbal commands bzzzzt they taze your ass to the ground with a second notice. It could be over something so minor as arguing with a cop over a traffic ticket.

    Who is to say this isn't the first step towards using this information for other purposes than just national security? Who is to say they're not already abusing it?

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Do you prefer tactics, techniques and procedures?

    35G. 20 years. Retired Army officer.
    That's not SIGINT, and that's not an officer MOS.


    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    You mean you and Veraz having your little fit over the differences between information technology and signals intelligence?
    There's no fit. He thinks it's the same as far as access goes. It's not.

    You told him that he doesn't understand sigint. I said I do. The context of this discussion remains the allegations that the US is spying on all Americans.
    So what do you have to say about having the physical ability to query raw SIGINT databases but not the legal authority? Do you think anything about it? Cause imagery isn't the same, and I've never met an NGA guy that had access to those databases. Maybe you did, as a "35G officer". What was your MOS when you entered anyway, because 20 years ago there was no 35 series. Nah, nevermind, I'm sure you're legit. >.>

    What do you have to add about IT being different from SIGINT? Tell us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    But you are making the case that tyranny is fine with you as long as enough people agree.
    No, I'm not. You're making the case, though, that if you don't like something and think it's illegal, it is illegal and there's no argument otherwise. It's silly.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    You are a strange duck.
    Am I? It's strange to wonder why someone can't answer a straight forward question? Okay Officer Sergeant, sir.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    Quite the contrary. You remind me of religious zealots who can only interpret information in a manner that suits their point of view. Sad.
    Do you understand why the 4th amendment was added to the bill of rights? How does one interpret the requirement of probable cause/judicial approval to prevent unreasonable searches and seizures to mean it is okay to spy on American citizens?

    I suppose I do remind you of a religious zealot. You remind me of one who sees the Constitution as a hindrance.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    I know you don't understand what SIGINT is, though.
    Information technology is a broad term that covers SIGINT. Signals are intercepted and recorded to a database that is then accessed later by NSA agents. What is your point?

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Am I? It's strange to wonder why someone can't answer a straight forward question? Okay Officer Sergeant, sir.
    Commissioned Officer actually.

    Ask a straight forward question.

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    That's not SIGINT, and that's not an officer MOS.
    35G is not an officer MOS? If you must know I was also a 35D (so 35DG) and carried a 7Y designator. I was also a defense intelligence agency school trained intelligence collection manager. I served as a corps level collection manager. You are blowing it...

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Information technology is a broad term that covers SIGINT.
    No, it doesn't.

    Signals are intercepted and recorded to a database that is then accessed later by NSA agents. What is your point?
    'NSA agents'? The odd use of terms would leave me to believe you don't get this: certain people get access to 'raw SIGINT'. Not many, but they're not particularly high-ranking or anything. It's people doing a certain job. They can query a database and there's a lot of options. But they only have the legal power to go after certain targets. It has nothing to do with IT access. Zero. If they query something they shouldn't, it pops up and they're ****ed. Well, actually everything they query comes up, but you know what I mean.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Greenwald says 'low-level' NSA workers can tap into phone, Internet records

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    Thats the problem: You assume you're being spied on. You fail to realize that the huge amounts of information that are collected and need to be analyzed wouldn't allow for someone to just sit around and spy on all 310 million Americans.
    I recently did a search on Google for a particular type of product and now I see adverts for that type of product popping up on various websites that are not related to that product or connected to Google directly. Now thousands of people may know about my interest in that product. Many of those people probably also know about my interest in other types of products and other interests as revealed by my history of Google searches, the YouTube videos I watched, my Facebook activity, and at least some of the other websites I visit. Someone with access to just my Google database can know more about me than my brother knows.

    The government can access that same info and combine it with my telephone and utilitiy records, e-mail history, property records, criminal record, driver's license and vehicle registration info, public school records, social security and tax records. Much of that information is accessible by anyone. (as seen by the targeted junk mail you get) Anyone with access to all that info can know more about me than my spouse.

    With nearly everyone in the system there is so much data that there is a very slight possibility that any one individual is going to be selected for deeper investigation. The technology required to make sense and practical use of all that raw date is still relatively primitive compared to its potential. That is why the supporters of a surveillance state reassure us that we are not likely to be targetted. However, all that information compiled on nearly everyone in the USA in a sophisticated database can find connections between people and organizations and detect all sorts of trends and tendencies.

    Read the news stories on how the Chinese government is using information on citizen's internet use. I don't think it is at all farfetched to say that our government has the ability to disrupt political movements such as Occupy or the Tea Party before they even get started. They can potentially use their massive information database in conjunction with old fashioned investigative work, political dirty tricks, Cointel type tactics and advertisng/marketing techniques to acheive virtually any type of political, social or marketing goal. If they can't do it right now, they will be able to do it in the near future.

    With that much power in the hands of government, democracy becomes a farce. Perhaps it is not being abused yet. But all it will take is one person with a high level of access and a malicious or misguided agenda for many lives to be ruined. Mistakes will be made. Technology and privileges will be abused. Power and money will corrupt government officals. Bad, mentally ill or misguided people will be in positions of power.

    You don't have to believe that there is any kind of evil plan or bad people in power at this time to conclude that this is too much power for any small group of people to have. It is akin to nuclear weapons. We are fortunate that, thanks to a lot of security and prevention effort, there have not been any nuclear wars or terrorist use of nuclear weapons yet. But the level of risk is proportional to the number of weapons that exist, no matter how hard we try to keep things under control.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 08-04-13 at 04:12 PM.

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