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Signs of declining economic security

Again, society feels a life is less worth than a game. That is a ****ed up society no matter how you try to spin it and it knows no political ideology on that one. It only knows greed. Greed is worth more than life in this society.

supply and demand dictates price and pay
when we have people stop wanting to be policeman fireman and soldiers because the pay isn't worth the risk then the pay would rise to make it worth the risk to be a policeman fireman and soliders
 
In high school I had a teacher that regularly discussed economics before class started, and when we discussed the future of labor in the United States he told us to expect that each of us would average about five to seven careers throughout our working careers. Gone was the job security of our parents and grandparents who had a reasonable expectation that they would work at a single employer their whole lives and enjoy the job security that came with it.

Those discussions took place in 1999. To act as if this trend is something that has happened over the last few years, rather than the last three or four decades, is foolish.

Missing the point....I nor is the article suggesting that the trend of today is a product of just the last 5 years, nor is it the product of possibly the last 15 years, no. The fruits of what is seen today has its roots in possibly the last 40 years, so on that we agree. My thoughts are that it started in the early 70s with the progressive promise that we could automate, and shift to a "service based economy"... That notion was false.

As for the article, I am not surprised at all of the findings. With the emphasis on capital over the recent decades, labor is no longer that important when companies can have laborers in developing nations build their products at a fraction of the price of their American counterparts. Along with the prevalence of robotics, the manpower necessary to manufacture goods is drastically less than what was needed in post World War II America.

Capitalism is not the problem, Ideas based on quasi socialism are.

In order to better compete in the global market education is now the key to prosperity. Now no longer does a college degree guarantee success, but in order to do well one must have a post-undergraduate work. Unfortunately, this means that blue collar workers of the future will become something of a perpetual underclass with little chance of upward mobility. It is sad, but that is capitalism for you.

Education is key, I agree, but this constant push for greater levels of graduate, and post graduate degrees is nonsense...We in this country are approaching a shortage of Electricians, Plumbers, Welders, and trade skills altogether.

Let's face it, as has always been true, not everyone is cut out for college, and the ability to make it in the middle class with a trade skill is disappearing. Along with the government spending ever more on social programs that are sold as hitting the wealthy, but in reality destroy the middle class in order to redistribute individual labor productivity is detrimental to a successful middle class.

Capitalism didn't cause this path, progressive march toward tenets of socialism did.
 
supply and demand dictates price and pay
when we have people stop wanting to be policeman fireman and soldiers because the pay isn't worth the risk then the pay would rise to make it worth the risk to be a policeman fireman and soliders

Again, doesn't change the fact that people view life less than playing a football game. That is ****ed up, no matter how you spin it. The only example you have provided is greed and shows how ****ed up society really is.
 
Again, society feels a life is less worth than a game. That is a ****ed up society no matter how you try to spin it and it knows no political ideology on that one. It only knows greed. Greed is worth more than life in this society.

TNE, are you a successful guy?
 
TNE, are you a successful guy?

I'm quite certain your definition of success and mine are different. Yes, I am successful by my definition which means I have a loving family, good quality of life (by my definition), and good friends. No, I am not rich, but I'm happy. What is your definition of success?
 
Was this the change you liberal progressives were waiting for? Was this the plan? All this talk, and excuse making for a failed liberal agenda of bringing all boats down in the name of "fairness" is bull****! We are NOT better off with Obama in office! We are NOT recovering under his administration, because that was never the plan. We are in decline, ushered in, and sped up by this progressive trash in the WH for the purpose of bringing this country down, because he can't stand what our place in the world was.

Don't agree with me? I couldn't care less! IF all you want to do is attack, then do us all a favor and don't post in this thread. If you want to discuss the conclusion of the AP report, then I am listening.

Hey your wrong, because they added a whole 195,000 jobs a couple months ago. I mean come on, we growing our GDP at 2% per year......that's staggering; especially when you compare it to China's 7%. Oh wait.......
 
supply and demand dictates price and pay
when we have people stop wanting to be policeman fireman and soldiers because the pay isn't worth the risk then the pay would rise to make it worth the risk to be a policeman fireman and soliders

I'd go one step further, and say that in addition to risk not being worth reward, I'd say that the prospect of working, and risking to give up half of your labor is just not worth it.
 
Yes, but then Congress (you know the
house that controls the purse and is GOP dominate) could defund ObamaCare if they REALLY wanted to. They don't. What does that say about the GOP?




That's been happening for decades. While I think Obama has done worse, it's no excuse for the morons that elected Bush twice. I think the last president I actually had respect for was Bush Senior and I hated his policies, but I respected the man.

I'll leave the Bush hatred to the simpletons who were so maleable they bought into all of the false narratives used by the Democrats to define his Presidency.

Now 5 years in, as those same Democats blame the Collapse of the Democrat mandated Sub-Prime bubble on Bush, or keep bringing up the two wars which were sent through Congress First, we are currently borrowing and printing just ti stay afloat.

Obama's economy is held up entirely with trillions in QE and its his bigest lie yet.

Instead of admitting failure, he is borrowing and printing to lesson the effects of his economic failure. He's ling since given up on a " recovery".

Your average Obama voter doesn't care because they'retoo stupid to know but the rest of realize that this perpetual QE and Borrowing guarantees that one day, we're going to hqve reconcile with the 8 years of Liberal stupidity and its not going to be pretty.
 
Again, doesn't change the fact that people view life less than playing a football game. That is ****ed up, no matter how you spin it. The only example you have provided is greed and shows how ****ed up society really is.

its not greed it is how the market works. when prices go down is it because someone became less greedy? no. it is because either the supply increased and or the demand decreased.
the same thing happens with pay when you have a big demand for policeman fireman and soldiers with a limited supply then the pay goes up to attract more to become one
 
I'm quite certain your definition of success and mine are different. Yes, I am successful by my definition which means I have a loving family, good quality of life (by my definition), and good friends. No, I am not rich, but I'm happy. What is your definition of success?

Ok, that's fair...Let me redefine...You're not "rich" right? But you live a comfortable life am I right?
 
Hey your wrong, because they added a whole 195,000 jobs a couple months ago. I mean come on, we growing our GDP at 2% per year......that's staggering; especially when you compare it to China's 7%. Oh wait.......

Yeah, plus I seem to be reading that we would be doing so much better if the wealthy, and corporations would only stop being "greedy" and give up their profits to those people that had no stake in creating that wealth, as though they are entitled to it.
 
Again, society feels a life is less worth than a game. That is a ****ed up society no matter how you try to spin it and it knows no political ideology on that one. It only knows greed. Greed is worth more than life in this society.

With respect, that's nonsense. The greed is on the part of the middle class and those who used to make up the middle class believing that they had a right to have it all, deserved to have it all and with attitudes like I'm just as important as a movie star or an athlete so I should get paid the same as they do. That's socialist drivel and it's propogated by the likes of Obama who constantly harp on the successful and wealthy not being deserving of what they have and the less fortunate deserving to take from the rich for their own benefit.

There was a time in America when people in the middle class or the working poor looked upon the lives of the successful and the wealthy as something to aspire to, they saw how some people, through their own talent, hard work, ingenuity, gained success and wealth for themselves and their family. They didn't look on the successful as somehow being crooks or frauds or people who don't deserve what they have. They didn't look at their own lives and say I want a government that gives me everything and takes nothing from me to pay for it - take if from that rich guy, he's got more than he needs and doesn't deserve it anyway.

The American dream used to be that anyone, through hard work and discipline, could succeed and prosper. Now, the dream is the biggest government check you can get each month. Some of the most successful people in America today are new Americans, immigrants from much harder lives in less fortunate countries, and they see the promise America has and they work hard to succeed. They know sitting on your ass and expecting your entitlements gets you nowhere. My generation and the generation we have raised are net takers and that's what's causing the decline of economic security in our societies today.
 
I'll leave the Bush hatred to the simpletons who were so maleable they bought into all of the false narratives used by the Democrats to define his Presidency.

Now 5 years in, as those same Democats blame the Collapse of the Democrat mandated Sub-Prime bubble on Bush, or keep bringing up the two wars which were sent through Congress First, we are currently borrowing and printing just ti stay afloat.

Obama's economy is held up entirely with trillions in QE and its his bigest lie yet.

Instead of admitting failure, he is borrowing and printing to lesson the effects of his economic failure. He's ling since given up on a " recovery".

Your average Obama voter doesn't care because they'retoo stupid to know but the rest of realize that this perpetual QE and Borrowing guarantees that one day, we're going to hqve reconcile with the 8 years of Liberal stupidity and its not going to be pretty.

There is no Bush hatred in my comments, only facts. Under Bush the economy got worse than when Clinton was president. Just as with Obama, the economy has gotten worse than Bush. I've criticzed Obama plenty.

The average "Obama" voter is no different than the average "GOP" voter. Both sides think "their" guys are the solution. They aren't, they are the problem.
 
With respect, that's nonsense. The greed is on the part of the middle class and those who used to make up the middle class believing that they had a right to have it all, deserved to have it all and with attitudes like I'm just as important as a movie star or an athlete so I should get paid the same as they do. That's socialist drivel and it's propogated by the likes of Obama who constantly harp on the successful and wealthy not being deserving of what they have and the less fortunate deserving to take from the rich for their own benefit..

So you feel risking your life is less than playing football? Let's just clear that up right now before I comment on the rest of what you said.
 
Ok, that's fair...Let me redefine...You're not "rich" right? But you live a comfortable life am I right?

I live comfortably to my standards yes. Meaning I have paid my debt, don't acrue anything I can't pay with cash, and pay my bills. I don't live above my means.
 
Was this the change you liberal progressives were waiting for? Was this the plan? All this talk, and excuse making for a failed liberal agenda of bringing all boats down in the name of "fairness" is bull****! We are NOT better off with Obama in office! We are NOT recovering under his administration, because that was never the plan. We are in decline, ushered in, and sped up by this progressive trash in the WH for the purpose of bringing this country down, because he can't stand what our place in the world was.

Don't agree with me? I couldn't care less! IF all you want to do is attack, then do us all a favor and don't post in this thread. If you want to discuss the conclusion of the AP report, then I am listening.

of course there was a plan ... the plan was to make it as difficult as possible for him to govern ... I think it was called "THE GOP PLAN TO MAKE IT AS DIFFICULT AS POSSIBLE FOR THE GUY WITH THE BIG EARS TO GOVERN" -- and as far as the signs of declining economic security goes, we saw those signs about 13 years ago when the surplus started to disappear ...
 
of course there was a plan ... the plan was to make it as difficult as possible for him to govern ... I think it was called "THE GOP PLAN TO MAKE IT AS DIFFICULT AS POSSIBLE FOR THE GUY WITH THE BIG EARS TO GOVERN" -- and as far as the signs of declining economic security goes, we saw those signs about 13 years ago when the surplus started to disappear ...

While the GOP have definitely been an obsticle to Obama, what did Obama and the Dems think was going to happen when the crammed Obamacare down the GOPs throat?

Obama was supposed to be a uniter and has since proven to be like Bush and be a divider. Given all the government problems with oversight do you REALLY want the government overseeing Obamacare?
 
There is no Bush hatred in my comments, only facts. Under Bush the economy got worse than when Clinton was president. Just as with Obama, the economy has gotten worse than Bush. I've criticzed Obama plenty.

The average "Obama" voter is no different than the average "GOP" voter. Both sides think "their" guys are the solution. They aren't, they are the problem.

That's what Reagan said.

In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. From time to time we've been tempted to believe that society has become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by an elite group is superior to government for, by, and of the people. Well, if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else? All of us together, in and out of government, must bear the burden.
 
While the GOP have definitely been an obsticle to Obama, what did Obama and the Dems think was going to happen when the crammed Obamacare down the GOPs throat?

Obama was supposed to be a uniter and has since proven to be like Bush and be a divider. Given all the government problems with oversight do you REALLY want the government overseeing Obamacare?

Wrong guy ... I wanted single payer ...
ACA was voted on, not crammed
Obama was an idiot to believe the GOP wanted to work with him ... the divide was there and the only way he could unite, was to do everything the GOP wanted him to do (and even that probably wouldn't work when you consider how some in the GOP opposed things he proposed that they supported before he proposed it)
 
So you feel risking your life is less than playing football? Let's just clear that up right now before I comment on the rest of what you said.

To the people who pay the wages, absolutely correct. If you sell your house, do you think you get to dictate that the buyer must overpay based on your inflated view of the worth of your property? Labor, in any form, is a commodity that is sold to the highest bidder or in other words, is offered to the person willing to pay the most on terms agreeable to both parties. You, sitting at your computer, don't get to dictate what Mr. Kraft pays Tom Brady to throw a football every Sunday afternoon. That decision is made by Mr. Kraft based on his analysis of the return on his investment in Mr. Brady. Having Mr. Brady as his quarterback gets him exponentially more in return than what he pays out in contracted salary to him.

This in no way denigrades or disrespects the work that anyone else does - it's a matter of supply and demand - very few people can throw a football like Tom Brady - statistics will tell you that millions of people can be police officers, because there are millions of police officers - and there are probably tens of millions of other people who could be equally as good police officers but there aren't enough jobs.

If you think that millions of people doing a job that millions of people can do and are doing should be paid the same as the one person doing a job that only one or perhaps a limited few can do, then your view of labor and it's value is nuts and you're exactly the type of person I was talking about in my original post and the exact type of person who's the problem, not the solution.

Now, go give me the preachy, social bleeding hearted speech about how savings lives is more noble than throwing a football - it has zero to do with the labor market, period.
 
Wrong guy ... I wanted single payer ...
ACA was voted on, not crammed
Obama was an idiot to believe the GOP wanted to work with him ... the divide was there and the only wayt he could unite, was to do everything the GOP wanted him to do

It was crammed and that much is fact. Almost all of the GOP had voted against it, therefore it was crammed down their throats because they were a minority. We aren't talking that Obamacare was illegal, we are talking that it wasn't bi-partisan.

Both sides have been playing political games at the expense of the voter.
 
To the people who pay the wages, absolutely correct. If you sell your house, do you think you get to dictate that the buyer must overpay based on your inflated view of the worth of your property? Labor, in any form, is a commodity that is sold to the highest bidder or in other words, is offered to the person willing to pay the most on terms agreeable to both parties. You, sitting at your computer, don't get to dictate what Mr. Kraft pays Tom Brady to throw a football every Sunday afternoon. That decision is made by Mr. Kraft based on his analysis of the return on his investment in Mr. Brady. Having Mr. Brady as his quarterback gets him exponentially more in return than what he pays out in contracted salary to him.

This in no way denigrades or disrespects the work that anyone else does - it's a matter of supply and demand - very few people can throw a football like Tom Brady - statistics will tell you that millions of people can be police officers, because there are millions of police officers - and there are probably tens of millions of other people who could be equally as good police officers but there aren't enough jobs.

If you think that millions of people doing a job that millions of people can do and are doing should be paid the same as the one person doing a job that only one or perhaps a limited few can do, then your view of labor and it's value is nuts and you're exactly the type of person I was talking about in my original post and the exact type of person who's the problem, not the solution.

Now, go give me the preachy, social bleeding hearted speech about how savings lives is more noble than throwing a football - it has zero to do with the labor market, period.

Hold on a minute, I'm not asking that pay be deemed by me at all. I'm simply pointing out that life is worth less in this society and how greed is the dominate factor. You can preach suppply and demand all you want, but if you view life less than a football game, you are part of the problem with society in general.
 
Global, schmobal.

We had it all, and pissed much of it away by following idiotic European socialist policies... a form of economic HIV.

The fruits of the socialists (Demokrats) bending over the nation time and again... and giving us one good one after another.

No whining... Enjoy!


Americas economic collapse has nothing to do with "European socialist policies"
 
It was crammed and that much is fact. Almost all of the GOP had voted against it, therefore it was crammed down their throats because they were a minority. We aren't talking that Obamacare was illegal, we are talking that it wasn't bi-partisan.

Both sides have been playing political games at the expense of the voter.

you've actually raised an interesting question ... How often have bills passed with everyone in one party voting for it and every member from the other party voting against it? I may try to google that later ...

yes, both parties play games, and Rand Paul scares the crap out of me, but what has happened to Obama, whom I'm not crazy about, is pretty unique ... but then again, as the Jackie Robinson of the presidency, we should not have expected it to be business as usual ...
 
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