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Thread: Signs of declining economic security

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by windowdressing View Post
    you've actually raised an interesting question ... How often have bills passed with everyone in one party voting for it and every member from the other party voting against it? I may try to google that later ...

    yes, both parties play games, and Rand Paul scares the crap out of me, but what has happened to Obama, whom I'm not crazy about, is pretty unique ... but then again, as the Jackie Robinson of the presidency, we should not have expected it to be business as usual ...
    I don't think it is unique at all. Obama came in as a "uniter" and didn't live up to it when Obamacare was crammed down the throats of the GOP. And yes, Rand Paul is scary, but most of the Dems/Reps are scary to me.

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Hold on a minute, I'm not asking that pay be deemed by me at all. I'm simply pointing out that life is worth less in this society and how greed is the dominate factor. You can preach suppply and demand all you want, but if you view life less than a football game, you are part of the problem with society in general.
    Of course I'm going to talk about supply and demand - the OP is about the economy and economic security which has everything to do with labor and the supply and demand of and for that labor.

    Maybe your comments would be better placed in one of the philosophical discussion threads where you can debate whether the actions of millions of police officers, who do valuable work but whom most people never come in contact with throughout their entire lives, is more important than the joy and excitement that Tom Brady provides to millions of fans every Sunday from September through January every year.

    Tell you what - if you can prove that you pay every person who provides a service to you every day of your life the same salary/wage that your employer pays you, maybe you'd have the moral authority to judge the value of various professions. Do you insist that the guy who gives you coffee and a muffin every morning at McDonalds gets the same salary you do, or do you feel he's not as valuable as you? He might think otherwise.

    Being preachy and morally superior is very easy to do.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by windowdressing View Post
    you've actually raised an interesting question ... How often have bills passed with everyone in one party voting for it and every member from the other party voting against it? I may try to google that later ...

    yes, both parties play games, and Rand Paul scares the crap out of me, but what has happened to Obama, whom I'm not crazy about, is pretty unique ... but then again, as the Jackie Robinson of the presidency, we should not have expected it to be business as usual ...
    Better question. How many bills have passed that represent a government take over of 1/6th of the nations economy, with no members of the opposing party voting in favor of it?

    I'd suggest that might be a more interesting search.

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I don't think it is unique at all. Obama came in as a "uniter" and didn't live up to it when Obamacare was crammed down the throats of the GOP. And yes, Rand Paul is scary, but most of the Dems/Reps are scary to me.
    He's a Kenyan, he's a Muslim, he wasn't born here, he's not really one of us ... yeah, I guess you're right, the same was said of every president we've had ... my bad ...

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Better question. How many bills have passed that represent a government take over of 1/6th of the nations economy, with no members of the opposing party voting in favor of it?

    I'd suggest that might be a more interesting search.
    Why is it that you always think that your question is better?

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by windowdressing View Post
    Why is it that you always think that your question is better?
    Because I asked it...

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Tell you what - if you can prove that you pay every person who provides a service to you every day of your life the same salary/wage that your employer pays you, maybe you'd have the moral authority to judge the value of various professions. Do you insist that the guy who gives you coffee and a muffin every morning at McDonalds gets the same salary you do, or do you feel he's not as valuable as you? He might think otherwise.

    Being preachy and morally superior is very easy to do.
    There is a difference between risking your life and making a cup of coffee. There is no equivalency to that, sorry. As for being preachy and acting like they are morally superior, that is the MO of conservatives.

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by windowdressing View Post
    He's a Kenyan, he's a Muslim, he wasn't born here, he's not really one of us ... yeah, I guess you're right, the same was said of every president we've had ... my bad ...
    Not any different than Bush was AWOL, Bush was part of 9/11, and Bush lied purposely to get us into the Iraq war. Like I said, not unique.

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceman_Spiff View Post
    In high school I had a teacher that regularly discussed economics before class started, and when we discussed the future of labor in the United States he told us to expect that each of us would average about five to seven careers throughout our working careers. Gone was the job security of our parents and grandparents who had a reasonable expectation that they would work at a single employer their whole lives and enjoy the job security that came with it.

    Those discussions took place in 1999. To act as if this trend is something that has happened over the last few years, rather than the last three or four decades, is foolish.

    As for the article, I am not surprised at all of the findings. With the emphasis on capital over the recent decades, labor is no longer that important when companies can have laborers in developing nations build their products at a fraction of the price of their American counterparts. Along with the prevalence of robotics, the manpower necessary to manufacture goods is drastically less than what was needed in post World War II America.

    In order to better compete in the global market education is now the key to prosperity. Now no longer does a college degree guarantee success, but in order to do well one must have a post-undergraduate work. Unfortunately, this means that blue collar workers of the future will become something of a perpetual underclass with little chance of upward mobility. It is sad, but that is capitalism for you.

    The problem we run into is that the TYPE of education is far more important that just getting a college degree.While jobs increasingly require a college degree as a prerequisite, the truth is most of them don't actually need the education that was gathered in college, it is just a litmus test to see if the person is educable and can stick with something to completion. The jobs that make no use of your skill set are the ones with little or no job security.

    In the long run, if you want a reasonably stable job get a college degree in computing and augment it with a laundry list of professional certifications.

    Also, the idea of robotics replacing the American blue collar isn't entirely true. The blue collar jobs still exist, but they have migrated away from factory jobs and into services. You can't outsource plumbing and electrical work, or construction, or auto repairs. Those jobs still exist in the country because they physically have to be located in the country. What we have failed to do is prepare students for these jobs as we used to in high school. Bring back shop class and auto shop. Give students the option of a practical skill in school rather than the standard curriculum. Prep students to be electricians, plumbers and auto mechanics.

    Moreover, decrease college funding for the wholly useless degrees that can not translate into gainful employment and push more towards the engineering disciplines. We as a country have lost sight of what makes a country truly prosperous. The Sciences are great, and contribute greatly to society, but the real engine of a strong economy is engineers. They are the practical arm of science, the builders and the inventors. Focus heavily on engineering and prosperity comes with it.

    My modest proposal for years has been to take the Department of Energy, Department of Education and NASA and just role them into a new Department called "Department of Technological Advancement", this department would be focused on the advancement of education and implementations in the technological disciplines in the non-defense industries.

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And while I hated much of what he did, he was right.
    No he was wrong, not to mention highly hypocritical considering he expanded government on behalf of his financial backers.

    The problem is accountability and transparency and lack of this. We should only have the government we need, no more, no less. The issue in many countries is that government has no accountability or transparency, so it can grow out of control because there is money in government. Politicians become rich when in office and after office if they play their cards right.. and that is wrong.

    A good example is the US military. It is beyond bloated and its procurement waste is catastrophic.. because there is very little transparency or accountability. For example this one..

    Abrams Tank Pushed By Congress Despite Army's Protests

    If there's a home of the Abrams, it's politically important Ohio. The nation's only tank plant is in Lima. So it's no coincidence that the champions for more tanks are Rep. Jim Jordan and Sen. Rob Portman, two of Capitol's Hill most prominent deficit hawks, as well as Democratic Sen. Sherrod Brown. They said their support is rooted in protecting national security, not in pork-barrel politics
    So here we have a situation where the military (aka the government) does not want the extra tanks, but the elected politicians force it through because of basically financial bribes. Not pork-barrel politics.. yea right!

    Another example was a plane or helicopter that the US airforce said no to over a decade ago, but because it was made in a GOP Senators home state, he pushed for the billions wasted on the program. Only recently the program was finally cancelled.

    It is this kind of abuse by elected politicians that is the problem, not "government". Government is just the tool of politicians, and in a corrupt political climate like the US, waste and nepotism is the number one problem and is always blamed on the "government" and not on the elected officials.

    The continuing revolving door between elected officials to lobbyist for industry to management in industry is causing 90% of the waste and problems in government.

    For example, bad regulation. In most cases they are put in place to protect a local politicians political/financial allies. Why do you think that the healthcare insurance industry fought for decades against opening up the market? Because they steadily funneled campaign money to local politicians who then blocked any liberalization of the market.

    And the reason I am not putting elected politicians in the "government" box is simple. There are millions of hard working people in "government" and they should not all be blamed for some elected officials corruption. And yes there are some lazy bastards in "government" as well.. just as there is in the private sector.
    PeteEU

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