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Thread: Signs of declining economic security

  1. #151
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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by Sisyphus View Post
    The responsibility for the decision to go to war was Bush's entirely. Congress merely authorized it as an option, which can also be saber rattling and not out and out war. And in a post 9/11 environment, at the time, few dared, politically, to not support giving the president that option.
    Those who voted for authorizing the war deserve credit for it.

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    So, IYV, politicians votes are merely expedient to their future elections?
    No!!! Of course not!!! Only in a fantasy land would an elected official consider how voting on a bill might affect them politically. NOT IN AMERICA!!!

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by Sisyphus View Post
    No!!! Of course not!!! Only in a fantasy land would an elected official consider how voting on a bill might affect them politically. NOT IN AMERICA!!!
    Well, at least we can agree on some things... Good afternoon...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Those who voted for authorizing the war deserve credit for it.
    Yes; for authorizing it. And those who did, and regretted doing so, have expressed regret. Plus the cherry-picked and manufactured "intelligence" used to gain their support for authorizing Bush, is a mitigating factor too.

    Thankfully my Congressman did not, and was in fact proved right, despite being among the few with the guts to oppose it, even after being demeaned as "Baghdad Jim."

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Sorry, but the decision to go into Iraq was Bush's. No spin about that. I can say the same about some decisions Obama has made as well. That's personal responsibility. My work had given me the ok to purchase items needed for a task to do. However, what I purchased was MY choice and MY responsibility. Same with Bush's decision, it was HIS choice and HIS responsibility.
    Not the same thing. Congress didn't give Bush the power to just go to war with anyone. They gave him the power to specifically go to war with Iraq. Saying it was solely his decision to go to war doesn't divert them responsibility. Even if Bush decided not to go to war, I'd say those who voted to authorize it should still have to answer for their poor judgement.

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by Sisyphus View Post
    Yes; for authorizing it. And those who did, and regretted doing so, have expressed regret. Plus the cherry-picked and manufactured "intelligence" used to gain their support for authorizing Bush, is a mitigating factor too.

    Thankfully my Congressman did not, and was in fact proved right, despite being among the few with the guts to oppose it, even after being demeaned as "Baghdad Jim."
    So you do agree that they deserve blame for poor judgement? I'm glad you are on my side in this matter.

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    So you do agree that they deserve blame for poor judgement? I'm glad you are on my side in this matter.
    Yes, albeit with a caveat. A well orchestrated BS campaign, which included hanging Sec. Gen. Powell out to dry with trumped up nonsense he delivered in a UN speech, is indeed a mitigating factor. I wish more had Jim McDermott's courage, and took the step he did: go there; meet face to face; get a read on people; see if they're credible or lying. As a trained psychiatrist, McDermott might have had an advantage. But most intelligent people can read faces, eye movement, etc. and see how honest they're being.

    I watched a press conference with Iraq's guy in charge of dismantling their programs, and found him very credible. I believed strongly the guy was being truthful, and could see it in his eyes. Were I in Congress, it would have given me pause. And indeed I would have voted no.

    In fact, my opposition to the war created a rift between my brother and I. He's a ex-Navy pilot and was flying commercially into Newark when 9/11 was happening, and had to vector off to a base in upstate NY and stay with the plane while passengers were bussed to Newark. So maybe it was more emotional for him, and thus I've not made an issue of my being right and him being wrong.

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Sorry, but the decision to go into Iraq was Bush's. No spin about that. I can say the same about some decisions Obama has made as well. That's personal responsibility. My work had given me the ok to purchase items needed for a task to do. However, what I purchased was MY choice and MY responsibility. Same with Bush's decision, it was HIS choice and HIS responsibility.
    "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
    --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

    "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
    --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

    "Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
    --Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

    "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
    --Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

    "[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
    Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
    -- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

    "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
    -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

    "Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
    -- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

    "There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
    Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
    -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

    "We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
    -- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

    "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
    -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

    "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
    -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

    "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
    -- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

    "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
    -- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

    "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
    -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

    "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
    -- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

    "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
    -- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

    "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
    -- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

    "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
    -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

    "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
    -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

    You've bought into the false narratives of the left. The entire Bush blame nonsense appeals to people just-like -you, and as long as the Democrats know people just - like - you exist, they know they can get away with these manufactured narratives.

    I guess you bought into the Halliburton BS too.......

    You DO KNOW that Halliburton's first NO BID CONTRACT was given to them by Clinton right ? Yep, during his Kosovo redirect.

    My point is sooner or later we're going to have to do something about all of the people in this Country who are so easily manipulated. You see where they've got us currently and I don't know if this Country cn absorb the mass stupidity of your typical Democrat for much longer.
    Last edited by Fenton; 07-31-13 at 09:07 PM.
    The New Democratic Party Slogan :

    " Return to Power By Any Means Necessary "

  9. #159
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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by Sisyphus View Post
    Yes, albeit with a caveat. A well orchestrated BS campaign, which included hanging Sec. Gen. Powell out to dry with trumped up nonsense he delivered in a UN speech, is indeed a mitigating factor. I wish more had Jim McDermott's courage, and took the step he did: go there; meet face to face; get a read on people; see if they're credible or lying. As a trained psychiatrist, McDermott might have had an advantage. But most intelligent people can read faces, eye movement, etc. and see how honest they're being.

    I watched a press conference with Iraq's guy in charge of dismantling their programs, and found him very credible. I believed strongly the guy was being truthful, and could see it in his eyes. Were I in Congress, it would have given me pause. And indeed I would have voted no.

    In fact, my opposition to the war created a rift between my brother and I. He's a ex-Navy pilot and was flying commercially into Newark when 9/11 was happening, and had to vector off to a base in upstate NY and stay with the plane while passengers were bussed to Newark. So maybe it was more emotional for him, and thus I've not made an issue of my being right and him being wrong.

    "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
    --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

    "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
    --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

    "Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
    --Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

    "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
    --Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

    "[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
    Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
    -- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

    "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
    -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

    "Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
    -- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

    "There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
    Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
    -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

    "We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
    -- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

    "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
    -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

    "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
    -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

    "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
    -- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

    "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
    -- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

    "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
    -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

    "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
    -- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

    "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
    -- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

    "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
    -- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

    "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
    -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

    "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
    -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

    It would appear that all of the " BS orchestration " came from the left...
    The New Democratic Party Slogan :

    " Return to Power By Any Means Necessary "

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    We only know the actions that have happened, not that COULD have happened. We can play "What-if" games all day long and not prove each other wrong because it is "what-if". But the FACTS remain that Bush made the decision to go in there.



    Yet again, the DECISION and the RESPONSIBILTY STILL lies with Bush. There is no spin that can change that. You can try to mitigate it, you can try to justify it, but the decision and the responsibility STILL lies with Bush on the Iraq and Afghanistan war.

    Obama is responsible for continuing it, surging it, and leaving it. However, that doesn't change the FACT that Bush is the one responsible for the decision to go in there.

    Why you and others cannot understand that is beyond me. IT'S ELEMENTARY.
    OK, You answered my questions. Just not directly. But it's loud and clear no matter what Bush had done, you would have been against whatever he did.

    Some facts would lead every President to make the same exact decision.

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