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Thread: Signs of declining economic security

  1. #141
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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Yes, the Iraq decision from Congress was giving Bush the OK to order the actions. Congress didn't say he HAD to do it. Bush made that decision. Sorry, but the righty spin can't get passed that fact. It was Bush's decision to go into Iraq.

    Yet again you have shown intellectual dishonesty to not put ANY blame to Bush. I have plenty of criticism over Obama's actions which is what led to me not voting for him in 2012. Do you have any honesty whatsoever?
    Are you honest enough to admit that anyone running for president that had a real chance to win in 2000 would have made the exact same decision Bush made? And lets look at it from the opposite angle. Given what had recently happened at the time, and the then current political climate and the head of the CIA (appointed by a Democrat) saying it was a slam dunk Iraq had nukes, what if he doesn't invade Iraq? Would you or anybody else that has been critical of his decision to go to war with Iraq supported Bush's decision not to? I doubt it. At that point those critical of Bushes decision just shift the argument to he's letting Iraq get away with murder, shooting at America's military, murdering his own people, supporting terrorist and so on.

  2. #142
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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Are you honest enough to admit that anyone running for president that had a real chance to win in 2000 would have made the exact same decision Bush made?
    We only know the actions that have happened, not that COULD have happened. We can play "What-if" games all day long and not prove each other wrong because it is "what-if". But the FACTS remain that Bush made the decision to go in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    And lets look at it from the opposite angle. Given what had recently happened at the time, and the then current political climate and the head of the CIA (appointed by a Democrat) saying it was a slam dunk Iraq had nukes, what if he doesn't invade Iraq? Would you or anybody else that has been critical of his decision to go to war with Iraq supported Bush's decision not to? I doubt it. At that point those critical of Bushes decision just shift the argument to he's letting Iraq get away with murder, shooting at America's military, murdering his own people, supporting terrorist and so on.
    Yet again, the DECISION and the RESPONSIBILTY STILL lies with Bush. There is no spin that can change that. You can try to mitigate it, you can try to justify it, but the decision and the responsibility STILL lies with Bush on the Iraq and Afghanistan war.

    Obama is responsible for continuing it, surging it, and leaving it. However, that doesn't change the FACT that Bush is the one responsible for the decision to go in there.

    Why you and others cannot understand that is beyond me. IT'S ELEMENTARY.

  3. #143
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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Played a role in what? Just people's opinions?
    A role in the overall attacks on Obama.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #144
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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Both. I give plenty to charities in time volunteering and money. I am also a life-time member of the VFW and do volunteer effort there as well. Maybe you would like to share with us how charitable you are with your money and time.
    Plenty...I give about 10% of my income, and personal time as well.
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  5. #145
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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    This last recession was unlike any other I ever experienced.

    The financial meltdown cost us much more than any other recession since the Great depression.

    I think most of the blame for this past recession falls on the pure greed of the financial institutions.

    Although the financial institutions would like us to believe and have led us to believe that mandated mortgage lending is the reason they are in trouble ,
    I believe the Credit Default Swaps are the real reason that our financial institutions were in dire straights.

    This last recession was unlike any other I ever experienced.
    In the past we had manufacturing crisis, fuel crisis, inflation crisis, dot. com crisis etc.

    In the last 40 years every other recession our country was in those who had very good or excellent credit were able to get loans. Those loans may have come with double digit interest but they were still available.

    This last recession was different because the lending institutions did not have the money to loan.

    I think the problem started way before the mandated mortgage lending.
    I think it stated back in 1997 when the JP Moragn came up with a wonderfully evil ( my words) idea to free up their monies called Credit Default Swaps.

    The Credit Default Swaps were invented in 1997 by a team working for JP Morgan. They were designed to shift the risk of default to a third-party, as this shifted risk did not count against their regulatory capital requirements. In essence the swaps were created as a regulatory loophole


    Basically banks used to need to keep monies on hand to back up loans. The financial institutions decided they could free up more money for loans if they had a 3rd party be responsible if a loan was defaulted.
    Kind of like an insurance policy but unlike a real insurance company which is regulated these 3rd party companies are not regulated and did NOT have the money to pay the defaults and that is why our financial institutions are in such a mess.

    The banks kept lending money they did not really have until lots of defaults are coming in with no one to pay the defaults.
    Then the financial institutions almost collapsed and we the taxpayers ended up bailing them out.

    More info on Credit Default Swaps:

    Credit Default Swaps: The Next Crisis? - TIME
    Oh it DID start way before 1997. Try 1993.
    Credit Default Swaps were just a financial tool used to collateralize risk investments like MBSs and NO they were not the cause of the Collapse.

    They were a regulatory MUST for investment banks.

    From 1997 to 2000 Fannie and Freddie were the originators of hundreds of billions in toxic AAA rated MBSs.

    That goes back to the policies that lowered Capital Requirements for loans purchased by Fannie and Freddie from 10% to 3% and the push for banks to lower their lending standards by the Clinton administration.

    Don't you remember Janet Reno threatening banks with prosecution if they didn't play ball ? I do.

    Clintons long list of executive orders in his National Homeowners Strategy turned the affordable housing iniative into a nightmare.

  6. #146
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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Sorry, but the decision to go into Iraq was Bush's. No spin about that. I can say the same about some decisions Obama has made as well. That's personal responsibility. My work had given me the ok to purchase items needed for a task to do. However, what I purchased was MY choice and MY responsibility. Same with Bush's decision, it was HIS choice and HIS responsibility.
    Okay, but the Democratic brass has to accept responsibility for standing behind that decision. Its hypocrisy to say "yeah we supported it, but we deny any responsibility."

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Okay, but the Democratic brass has to accept responsibility for standing behind that decision. Its hypocrisy to say "yeah we supported it, but we deny any responsibility."
    The responsibility for the decision to go to war was Bush's entirely. Congress merely authorized it as an option, which can also be saber rattling and not out and out war. And in a post 9/11 environment, at the time, few dared, politically, to not support giving the president that option.

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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    This last recession was unlike any other I ever experienced.
    The financial meltdown cost us much more than any other recession since the Great depression.

    I think most of the blame for this past recession falls on the pure greed of the financial institutions.

    Although the financial institutions would like us to believe and have led us to believe that mandated mortgage lending is the reason they are in trouble ,
    I believe the Credit Default Swaps are the real reason that our financial institutions were in dire straights.

    This last recession was unlike any other I ever experienced.
    In the past we had manufacturing crisis, fuel crisis, inflation crisis, dot. com crisis etc.

    In the last 40 years every other recession our country was in those who had very good or excellent credit were able to get loans. Those loans may have come with double digit interest but they were still available.

    This last recession was different because the lending institutions did not have the money to loan.

    I think the problem started way before the mandated mortgage lending.
    I think it stated back in 1997 when the JP Moragn came up with a wonderfully evil ( my words) idea to free up their monies called Credit Default Swaps.

    The Credit Default Swaps were invented in 1997 by a team working for JP Morgan. They were designed to shift the risk of default to a third-party, as this shifted risk did not count against their regulatory capital requirements. In essence the swaps were created as a regulatory loophole


    Basically banks used to need to keep monies on hand to back up loans. The financial institutions decided they could free up more money for loans if they had a 3rd party be responsible if a loan was defaulted.
    Kind of like an insurance policy but unlike a real insurance company which is regulated these 3rd party companies are not regulated and did NOT have the money to pay the defaults and that is why our financial institutions are in such a mess.

    The banks kept lending money they did not really have until lots of defaults are coming in with no one to pay the defaults.
    Then the financial institutions almost collapsed and we the taxpayers ended up bailing them out.

    More info on Credit Default Swaps:

    Credit Default Swaps: The Next Crisis? - TIME
    Thank you captain hindsight. I still haven't seen any evidence from the article you quoted off the HP that A. any regulation or rule would prevent a future financial crisis or B. said regulations or rules wouldn't cost the country in economic growth.

    The HP seems seems to justify any new proposed rules or regulations by saying "oh the difference between reality and our made up fantasy world where recessions never happen and growth is always fixed at some spectacular percentage is $15T. $15T is a lot of money so obviously banks should be regulated." If you're going to use studies that come up with imaginary numbers as your proof of "where the blame lies," you might as well just start talking about fairies and unicorns while you're at it.

  9. #149
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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by Sisyphus View Post
    The responsibility for the decision to go to war was Bush's entirely. Congress merely authorized it as an option, which can also be saber rattling and not out and out war. And in a post 9/11 environment, at the time, few dared, politically, to not support giving the president that option.
    So, IYV, politicians votes are merely expedient to their future elections?
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
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    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  10. #150
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    Re: Signs of declining economic security

    Quote Originally Posted by Sisyphus View Post
    The responsibility for the decision to go to war was Bush's entirely. Congress merely authorized it as an option, which can also be saber rattling and not out and out war. And in a post 9/11 environment, at the time, few dared, politically, to not support giving the president that option.
    Exactly.
    The United Nations conducted WMD searches and when they could not any WMDs President Bush ordered them to leave and started dropping bombs on Iraq.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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