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Thread: Seven killed in Florida

  1. #61
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    Re: Seven killed in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    we have discussed crime and gun issues for years and generally posts such as yours combined with "progressive leans" indicate an anti gun rights agenda
    I could very easily reply in kind, and say 'there is no point in discussing an issue with a rightwing nutjob like yourself' but does that not stifle debate at the start line?

    Paul
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    Re: Seven killed in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    I could very easily reply in kind, and say 'there is no point in discussing an issue with a rightwing nutjob like yourself' but does that not stifle debate at the start line?

    Paul

    I don't recall having "right wing nut job" as my lean. But this board crawls with posters who claim to be progressives and the vast majority of anti gun nonsense comes from people so self identified.



  3. #63
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    Re: Seven killed in Florida

    Holey Hannah, an astounding amount of incivility and irrelevant partisanship going on here.


    There is really nothing much to say about this incident, other than "well, that's a shame... glad it didn't happen in my town," and move on... which is what most Americans did when they encountered this story.

    The main reason for that is: there's not much to be done about this sort of thing. In a nation of over 315 million, with the particular social and economic problems and ethnic issues and etc that we have, things like this happen now and then.

    Our mental healthcare system took a blow in major budget cuts in the 80s, particularly mental hospitals for the criminally insane and the dangerously disordered. As a result, a lot of people ended up on the street who needed to be housed in a secure unit. In part, this sort of thing is where we reap what we've sown in terms of national mental health.

    OTOH, the long-term trends for violent crime and murder have been substantially DOWN for about 40 years now... so it really isn't as big an issue as the dramatic and overhyped media coverage make it seem.

    As for guns, well... there are arguably more guns in the country than people, most of them never registered, and no action short of draconian police-state tactics is going to make them go away. There's little point in attacking it from that end.



    So, frankly Paul, we shrug and we're thankful it wasn't anyone we knew and we go on with our lives... just like people who live in heavy tornado alleys like the Texas panhandle and Oklahoma after a storm; just like Hawaiians after an eruption; just like people continue to drive on the highways despite 40,000 traffic fatalities a year, just like we don't talk about restricting alcohol even though it is involved in roughly half of all fatal accidents and murders.



    There's not much can practically be done about it so we shrug and carry on.

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  4. #64
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    Re: Seven killed in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    good luck with that. I agree 100%. I believe tighter gun control would make a significant difference, but I don't think that the cause of gun violence in the US is the availability of guns
    Tighter gun control would make a difference?

    In Mexico a citizen is not allowed to own a gun, so is Mexico a peaceful country?

    When the law says citizens cannot own guns, only the criminals willhave guns, which is the situation in Mexico.

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    Re: Seven killed in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Demographics of the region say that odds are they were not people or innocent, but liberal/progressive or other type of socialist.

    What else can you do but accept that it happened. Unless you presume there was actually some way to prevent it.

    Strange, maybe to some, but as our society has become more liberal/progressive/socialistic leaning, we seem to have an increase of "nutjobs having bad days". Maybe we can prevent these nut jobs simply by eliminating all this socialist leftist BS in our society.
    I am Reading the book 1984 right now.

    Your post sounds like what I am reading.

    They were not people (party members) they were proles (the poor).

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    Re: Seven killed in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    I am Reading the book 1984 right now.

    Your post sounds like what I am reading.

    They were not people (party members) they were proles (the poor).
    Never read it. Who is saying that (in the book) about whom? Is it the nanny state socialist retards that are trying to build an Orwellian society saying it about the glorious patriots standing up for human freedom? Or the other way around.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  7. #67
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    Re: Seven killed in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    no one has been able to support your claim because in the USA we are getting more guns and in many states less gun control and crime is going down but it is going up in nations which have insane anti freedom gun laws
    do you have anything to substantiate this?
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  8. #68
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    Re: Seven killed in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    Tighter gun control would make a difference?

    In Mexico a citizen is not allowed to own a gun, so is Mexico a peaceful country?

    When the law says citizens cannot own guns, only the criminals willhave guns, which is the situation in Mexico.
    If you want to compare yourself to mexico - go ahead ... I always thought the US was supposed to be more like western Europe, Canada and Australia ....
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  9. #69
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    Re: Seven killed in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Holey Hannah, an astounding amount of incivility and irrelevant partisanship going on here.


    There is really nothing much to say about this incident, other than "well, that's a shame... glad it didn't happen in my town," and move on... which is what most Americans did when they encountered this story.

    The main reason for that is: there's not much to be done about this sort of thing. In a nation of over 315 million, with the particular social and economic problems and ethnic issues and etc that we have, things like this happen now and then.

    Our mental healthcare system took a blow in major budget cuts in the 80s, particularly mental hospitals for the criminally insane and the dangerously disordered. As a result, a lot of people ended up on the street who needed to be housed in a secure unit. In part, this sort of thing is where we reap what we've sown in terms of national mental health.

    OTOH, the long-term trends for violent crime and murder have been substantially DOWN for about 40 years now... so it really isn't as big an issue as the dramatic and overhyped media coverage make it seem.

    As for guns, well... there are arguably more guns in the country than people, most of them never registered, and no action short of draconian police-state tactics is going to make them go away. There's little point in attacking it from that end.



    So, frankly Paul, we shrug and we're thankful it wasn't anyone we knew and we go on with our lives... just like people who live in heavy tornado alleys like the Texas panhandle and Oklahoma after a storm; just like Hawaiians after an eruption; just like people continue to drive on the highways despite 40,000 traffic fatalities a year, just like we don't talk about restricting alcohol even though it is involved in roughly half of all fatal accidents and murders.



    There's not much can practically be done about it so we shrug and carry on.
    the murder rate in the US is FAR higher than in comparable nations - and while these mass shootings are shocking, they make up a relatively low proportion of the overall murder rate.

    that said - they do occur far more frequently than in other countries (although the worst of these atrocities did not occur in the US) - even taking into account the population size, there are other countries that have populations just as diverse as in the US, and in any case the majority of mass shooting perpetrators are white males.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  10. #70
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    Re: Seven killed in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    And by education, you mean brainwashing to your point of view. I am aware of high incidences in violence and many social factors and are aware that no single element alone explains everything. However, I cannot communicate in such a small space all that would needed to be known. I gave you a hint as to where and what to look for if your interested. I am however not going to give a full dissertation linking everything to the point that it would satisfy you. For one thing, your bias would preclude you from logical consideration of the evidence. Secondly, I have seen no evidence that you have the intellectual capacity, much less the will learn on the subject past your own biases. You also probably would not even read such a document if created.
    no. an educated person is able to assess information and construct a rational argument. they may not agree with me, but their argument will draw on factual information, not opinions and wild statements that can easily be dismissed by someone who can read.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

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