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Thread: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Inflation reduces the value of debt and is a gradual decline it individual spending power and in the wealth of the nation.
    That is only true, IFF, inflation increases faster than the rate of economic growth.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Thanks for admitting that much at least.
    It's not an "admission" to recognize established facts, but okay...


    I am not missing the "other half of the equation," because the yo-yo effect never caused that kind of problem.
    Yes, it did, and quite clearly so.



    The gray shaded areas, by the way, are recessions, depressions and panics. These economic downturns were both longer and more frequent prior to eliminating the gold standard.


    When investors could purchase stock on margins as high as 90% this created an aura of false wealth businesses used to expand with....
    Yes. You're talking about causes of the Great Depression. What I'm talking about is what happened repeatedly during the Great Depression.

    Once the markets crashed, consumption crashed, so manufacturers started firing people and lowering prices. This in turn reduced consumption, which reduced inventory and manufacturing, which in turn reduced consumption, and so forth.

    The US was also on the gold standard during the 1920's. That didn't stop anyone from generating tons of credit, or making loans without proper due diligence, or tamp down the speculators.


    Another factor people keep overlooking is the extensive use of credit that is creating more personal debt over the last 20 years than ever existed in our country prior.
    FYI, most household debt, and the increase in household debt, is in mortgages.


  3. #83
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    A basic error in terminology. Disposable income is also known as income after taxes. Since you are struggling, we'll keep it simple; per capita income between 1933 and 2008, adjusted for inflation, has increased by 675%!.
    Again I have to laugh...because you can't be "wealthy" when your money is essentially worthless. 675% more of zero value fiat paper, as compared to 100% value inherant in representative money is no comparison. It does not help either when as you admit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    So even though a plethora of goods and services are more expensive now (like a doctor, or gallon of gasoline), people are more wealthy than they have ever been.
    I won't go back as far as 1933, let's stick to a the period right after we went off representative money and changed to fiat money, 1975:

    When a gallon of regular gas in 1975 was $0.57 and now it is $3.69 on average but $4.25 in cities. Thats a 650% - 750% increase...

    When average rent in 1975 was $200 a month and is currently $1,062.00 a month. That's a 531% increase...
    EconomicPolicyJournal.com: Price Inflation Watch: Average NYC Rent Passes $3,000

    Using your own vaunted CPI the prices of basic food products, not including sweets and sodas, have grown every single year. Even you agree medical costs have sky-rocketed. Those are just a few examples of "real" consumer costs you all try to subsume in this CPI "Basket of Goods" b/s.

    So HOW are we "more wealthy every year" when the extra money barely meets the costs of basic living expenses? That's why I find claims like your's abominable propaganda.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 07-29-13 at 01:39 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  4. #84
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    The gray shaded areas, by the way, are recessions, depressions and panics. These economic downturns were both longer and more frequent prior to eliminating the gold standard.
    As usual out come the professional graphs and charts..."pay no attention to the reality behind the curtain again...be mystified by my construct of figures...it's not the fault of investment banks..." Meh!.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Once the markets crashed, consumption crashed, so manufacturers started firing people and lowering prices. This in turn reduced consumption, which reduced inventory and manufacturing, which in turn reduced consumption, and so forth.
    This had NOTHING to do with the gold standard, and EVERYTHING to do with poor investments which undermined the false values of corporate structures. That led to business owners involved in the crash and other businesses dependant on those involved to attempt mass cutbacks in order to try to reduce fixed costs and retain capital value. Of course this led to fewer people with incomes to buy creating more reductions and more people who could not afford to buy etc. etc.

    That's history bud, something your charts and graphs have no effect on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    FYI, most household debt, and the increase in household debt, is in mortgages.
    FYI Not everyone OWNS a house, mortgage or not, but nearly everyone who DOES also has credit card debt in addition to mortgage debt. Credit card debt is "deficit spending," and we are talking about people who also don't own homes.

    U.S. household consumer debt profile as of July 2013:

    U.S. household consumer debt profile:

    Average credit card debt: $15,325
    Average mortgage debt: $147,924
    Average student loan debt: $32,041
    In total, American consumers owe:

    $11.16 trillion in debt
    A decrease of 1.6% from last year
    $856.5 billion in credit card debt
    $7.86 trillion in mortgages
    $999.3 billion in student loans
    An increase of 6.1% from last year
    American Household Credit Card Debt Statistics: 2013

    So much for "disposable income."
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 07-29-13 at 01:38 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Again I have to laugh...because you can't be "wealthy" when your money is essentially worthless. 675% more of zero value fiat paper, as compared to 100% value inherant in representative money is no comparison. It does not help either when as you admit...
    This statement above has zero value! If you do not value your paper fiat dollars, send them to me! I will PM you my paypal information.

    I won't go back as far as 1933, let's stick to a the period right after we went off representative money and changed to fiat money, 1975

    When a gallon of regular gas in 1975 was $0.57 and now it is $3.69 on average but $4.25 in cities. Thats a 650% - 750% increase...
    LOL! Nominal personal income (not adjusted for inflation) has increased from $1.3349 trillion in 1975 to $13.431 trillion. That is a 906% increase. FWIW, $0.57 to $3.69 is a 547% increase.

    When average rent in 1975 was $200 a month and is currently $1,062.00 a month. That's a 531% increase...
    Actually, it is 431%. Personal income has still increased by more than double what the price of rent has increased.

    That's why I find claims like your's abominable propaganda.
    You simply have no idea what you are talking about.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    You simply have no idea what you are talking about.
    No, I simply refuse to be baffled by your B/S. Major difference. You use your charts, and I use real-world experience. I could have sworn we already agreed that we do not accept each other's "facts." Who are you trying to convince here, because it certainly isn't me. LOL
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  7. #87
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Another instance where Canada is ahead of the curve.
    Beautiful... more taxation, and taxation in an attempt to shape behavior.

    I say... reduce taxes, get government lean, and get your Nanny Bloomberg mentality out of my life. Adults should be able to purchase whatever food items they want without some dimwits passing laws in an attempt to protect us from ourselves.
    Last edited by zimmer; 07-29-13 at 01:58 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    No, I simply refuse to be baffled by your B/S. Major difference. You use your charts, and I use real-world experience. I could have sworn we already agreed that we do not accept each other's "facts." Who are you trying to convince here, because it certainly isn't me. LOL
    A most aggressive tone given you couldn't even manage simple math. When you are proven to be wrong, you shift gears into full denial mode. Nobody forced you to respond to my comment pertaining to real disposable income.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Beautiful... more taxation, and taxation in an attempt to shape behavior.

    I say... reduce taxes, get government lean, and get your Nanny Bloomberg mentality out of my life. Adults should be able to purchase whatever food items they want without some dimwits passing laws in an attempt to protect us from ourselves.
    And when their desires cause health care costs for the rest of us to balloon, its just the free market at work!
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Is that supposed to be humor?
    No. Mockery of your super duper internet life and feigned outrage.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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