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Thread: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

  1. #41
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Except that is not what they did. They explained that reductions in quality are recorded as increases in price, and so are accounted for. If your snickers is reduced in size and the price held steady, CPI records that as an inflationary price increase. They are doing exactly what they should to account for what you are claiming they are not accounting for. Therefore you are quite simply, wrong. Best to just admit it and move on.
    Really? So you say I am paying the same price for less, and some voodoo economic system calculates this as inflation but not really bad inflation, just "acceptable" inflation...so that makes it all right that I am consistently getting less value for my dollar? That's because on balance I am still getting value, because although I am paying more for the food I need to survive there is that computer I don't need which is relatively cheaper than previous computers I didn't need?

    Oh, and let's not forget all those new inexpensive clothes, that aren't as durable as the old ones I used to get for the price, but because they haven't increased in price (I just have to replace them more often) that somehow "saves" me money too. Then there is the furniture made of balsa wood, and other changes in product quality and durability that create...what was that old term again??? Oh yeah, "planned obsolescence" which keeps me buying the same things over and over as they wear out faster and faster...but they are cheap so that makes up for the waste of money.

    Great! I'll just sit and play on my computer and forget I'm hungry until you tell me how else I am getting value to keep my spirits up, okay?
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 07-26-13 at 12:46 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  2. #42
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    The first part is completely true. There should be false advertising suits against these products, but I doubt it'll happen.

    On the second account, it's not completely true. Most restaurants offer diet meals and have even been regulated to post calorie contents on the menus. The problems with fast food is just that it's fast; there is no need to wait or think about whether or not it's a good idea. I'll typically concede that it's cheaper to just buy fast food, but it's not necessarily bad for you. Don Gorske - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This guy eats 8.5 Big Macs a day, for years now, and has no health problems. I doubt that eating burgers like that is a "good" idea, but it doesn't seem to be linked to obesity. It's the idea that fat doesn't make you fat; dietary fat and cholesterol has no connection to obesity or blood cholesterol. The problem with the average American is eating sugary foods, drinking sugary drinks, and then not exercising; fast foods are not at fault.
    I don't disagree with you, and you're probably right about the lawsuits - it would have happened already if it ever was, consider lawyers in the US sue for everything.

    But I have to say that the advent of the "all you can eat" dinner buffet, at obscenely low cost, has led to a lot of people, particularly in the US where they're everywhere, even for breakfast, brunch and lunch too, to overeat and then vegg out has been a contributing cause to obesity - when you go to an all you can eat place, there's no such thing as the guy who eats healthy and a normal size meal - he's gotta get his money's worth.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  3. #43
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    I understand your position. However, I don't trust experts in fields who try to baffle me with B/S.
    Ok. Just don't expect people to believe you given the level of support you have provided with respects to your position.

    For example, the other gentleman I finally decided to ignore spent quite a few of his earliest posts in another thread trying to convince me that Hidden Unemployment had no validity when discussing job growth figures. That the millions of persons the government lists as marginally attached and discouraged workers should not count in unemployment figures because they have given up seeking work. That the only valid numbers should be limited to those actively seeking work.
    That is how you define unemployment. Discouraged workers are discouraged workers; attempting to lump them into another category in order to rationalize your political position doesn't cut it with people who actually understand this topic.

    I've worked for nearly three years in my State's department of unemployment and I know better.
    I would expect a better quality of post. What's the problem?

    Empirical evidence also shows me that your touted economic indicators don't seem to affect the workers much, that you "economists and statisticians" keep propping up the idea that our system is working when we have nearly 50 million people on food stamps only 4.3 million of whom are on welfare. So forgive me if I don't have a lot of faith in your economic theories and statistical methods of support for them.
    You don't understand what empirical evidence entails, nor understand the rigors of the peer review process. Which is nothing to be ashamed of, but i does raise questions as to why you reference it.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  4. #44
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Really? So you say I am paying the same price for less, and some voodoo economic system calculates this as inflation but not really bad inflation, just "acceptable" inflation...so that makes it all right that I am consistently getting less value for my dollar?
    I know he has me on ignore, but does anybody understand how he could have reached the conclusion that that's what either I or Dezaad said or implied? I'm baffled. Neither of us said anything about "bad" or "acceptable" or any other judgement call.

    I need an interpreter here.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  5. #45
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    That is how you define unemployment.
    Actually, if I remember correctly, he also wanted to include high school and college students who didn't want/need to work, stay home spouses, people taking care of family members...basically everyone except for "fully" retired and disabled. That was his definition of "True" unemployment regardless that he's the only one who holds that position.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  6. #46
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    IF you're measuring the same items in the same proportions. And when I say same items I mean same quality and same size.

    And then, of course, even the food at home index isn't based on what you buy. And where you live might also be above the national average.

    And the CPI considers all those price increases.
    If they're false, why do they need to be manipulated?

    That you don't understand the theory or the math doesn't make them invalid.

    I understand the theory and the math and that is why I say they are false statistics. CPI uses "substitutions" to manipulate and who knows what else. The best way to make an economy look good is to blow smoke up the citizen's collective asses until they don't have a clue what is going on. That's the real world. It's the same smoke with unemployment, manufacturing, white goods, and all to instill "confidence" so the fiat currency doesn't crash. "Full faith and credit" is a world of confidence and the root of our problem. Don't allow any figures to escape that will mar the image of "Confidence." Smoke and mirrors are working overtime, and that's a fact, Jack!

  7. #47
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    That is how you define unemployment. Discouraged workers are discouraged workers; attempting to lump them into another category in order to rationalize your political position doesn't cut it with people who actually understand this topic.
    NO, that is how you "economists and statisticians" and the government want to define unemployment. You do it to make things seems better than the really are. That's propaganda, not reality. Because you agree with this propaganda your facts and figures have no validity, except in your own view of things. There are millions of people who want to work but have realized no one is going to hire them, or that the chances of getting hired in this job market are slim to none. Don't even get me started on the new bodies entering the market every day from schools and colleges, often burdened with debt. Or any of the other 40 million "potential unemployed" who don't count for w/e reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    You don't understand what empirical evidence entails, nor understand the rigors of the peer review process. Which is nothing to be ashamed of, but i does raise questions as to why you reference it.
    Peer review process.. is that where a bunch of self-styled experts gets together and decides who is telling the right truth at any partucular time? That process? LOL

    I used to respect that process until I saw how political and contradictory it was. And isn't all life about politics and contradiction? LOL You "economists and statisticians" have been wrong many many times in history. Just because you claim to be experts and can support your positions with highly developed pie charts and nice little graphs the rest of us "non-peers" can't grasp...is no reason for me to believe your truth is the right truth either. Sorry, feel free to "ignore my ignorant prattle" because I am not going to pretend to expertise in a field I've found riddled with self-serving esoteric b/s.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  8. #48
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Actually, if I remember correctly, he also wanted to include high school and college students who didn't want/need to work, stay home spouses, people taking care of family members...basically everyone except for "fully" retired and disabled. That was his definition of "True" unemployment regardless that he's the only one who holds that position.
    I am sure this metric might provide some insight within labor markets but wouldn't the ratio between the number of non-farm employees and the total population provide even a better picture (1-(NFE/POP))?

    The not-employed ratio:



    Still shouldn't be confused with the unemployment rate.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  9. #49
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I understand the theory and the math and that is why I say they are false statistics. CPI uses "substitutions" to manipulate and who knows what else.
    Which kind of substitution are you referring to? Substituting ELIs due to non-availability, or substitution meaning changing the weights based on change in expenditures? I'm not sure how you would consider either of those "manipulating."
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  10. #50
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    NO, that is how you "economists and statisticians" and the government want to define unemployment. You do it to make things seems better than the really are. That's propaganda, not reality. Because you agree with this propaganda your facts and figures have no validity, except in your own view of things. There are millions of people who want to work but have realized no one is going to hire them, or that the chances of getting hired in this job market are slim to none. Don't even get me started on the new bodies entering the market every day from schools and colleges, often burdened with debt. Or any of the other 40 million "potential unemployed" who don't count for w/e reasons.
    The chart above is more to your liking? Cool! That you disagree with the official metric due to opinion alone is of no use to this discussion; it certainly doesn't support your position!

    Peer review process.. is that where a bunch of self-styled experts gets together and decides who is telling the right truth at any partucular time? That process? LOL
    No. Where statistical significance is analyzed within the context of its application.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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