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Thread: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

  1. #31
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    No wonder the average low income North American is ballooning in size when it's more economical to eat at McDonald's than eat at home.
    Do you support a pigouvian tax on all non-whole foods, e.g. flour, water, milk, meat, cheese, non-concentrate juice, etc... would not invoke a sales tax where as Hungry Man, Oreo's, Kool-Aid, Mt. Dew, etc... would face a 10% sales tax?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    This article may highlight a common practice amongst consumer goods manufacturers; however to relate it to inflation is a bit of a stretch, at best it is statistical noise.

    The most common measure of inflation is the CPI, which is an index that measures the change in price of a "market basket" of consumer goods and services; however the methodology used factors out such noise. This is because the index is actually comprised of multiple indexes for multiple categories across multiple areas.

    I'm not arguing that what the article says doesn't affect people's wallet over time; however to say that this masks inflation measures isn't accurate. There plenty of other services where you "get more" and "pay less" now, computers for example. The average computer today is cheaper and more powerful and with more gizmos included than a decade ago.

    My measure of inflation is what I spend at the Grocery Store. It used to cost $35 (2009) for what costs $50 (2013) today. That's inflation. There were 10 burritos in a package now there are only 8. 8 ounces of potato chips was $.99 and now 10 ounces is $1.49. 2 chocolate cupcakes went from $.49 to $.69. All snack products went up at lest 33%. The CPI is a joke. The real world doesn't live in the now of false statistics that are manipulated to make sure the gov't doesn't have to increase Social Security.

  3. #33
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Do you support a pigouvian tax on all non-whole foods, e.g. flour, water, milk, meat, cheese, non-concentrate juice, etc... would not invoke a sales tax where as Hungry Man, Oreo's, Kool-Aid, Mt. Dew, etc... would face a 10% sales tax?
    I do support a reduction in, or elimination of, taxes on whole foods - here in Toronto, where I live, there is no tax on such foods while there is tax on some prepackaged meals and ready to eat foods in multiple serving packages. There also is tax on "snack" foods that are not nutritionally beneficial. We have a GST - goods and services tax - which is basically a value added tax so the more processed a product, the more tax it carries up the production line.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  4. #34
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I do support a reduction in, or elimination of, taxes on whole foods - here in Toronto, where I live, there is no tax on such foods while there is tax on some prepackaged meals and ready to each foods in multiple serving packages. There also is tax on "snack" foods that are not nutritionally beneficial. We have a GST - goods and services tax - which is basically a value added tax so the more processed a product, the more tax it carries up the production line.
    Another instance where Canada is ahead of the curve.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Another instance where Canada is ahead of the curve.
    Perhaps, but we're still just as "curvy" as our American breathren.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Never fear, the apologists always come out with some excuse to show that you are not really getting less quality than you used to pay for...it'll all come right in the end. Of course you are still paying for cheap crap with essentially worthless money so it's all good right?
    Except that is not what they did. They explained that reductions in quality are recorded as increases in price, and so are accounted for. If your snickers is reduced in size and the price held steady, CPI records that as an inflationary price increase. They are doing exactly what they should to account for what you are claiming they are not accounting for. Therefore you are quite simply, wrong. Best to just admit it and move on.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Perhaps, but we're still just as "curvy" as our American breathren.
    No way!



    I will say much of obesity in the U.S. and Mexico is due to genetic factors. Not so much as people being prone to obesity, but how specific foods impact different ethical backgrounds. As far back as 1995, they were saying

    The specific reasons for the increase in obesity among Native Americans have not been determined, although it has been hypothesized that Native Americans have a genetic predisposition to overweight in a westernized environment of abundant food and decreased energy expenditure.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I've been buying groceries on a regular basis for about 40 years and I've witness virtually every product shrink in size in order to maintain its price-point on the shelf. And if you ever see something that's "New and Improved", rest assured that it's reduced in size - another good scam is "Concentrated" when it comes to laundry detergent, etc.

    While fast food and other restaurant meals get "jumboed" up, real or made-at-home meals get more expensive to put together. No wonder the average low income North American is ballooning in size when it's more economical to eat at McDonald's than eat at home.
    The first part is completely true. There should be false advertising suits against these products, but I doubt it'll happen.

    On the second account, it's not completely true. Most restaurants offer diet meals and have even been regulated to post calorie contents on the menus. The problems with fast food is just that it's fast; there is no need to wait or think about whether or not it's a good idea. I'll typically concede that it's cheaper to just buy fast food, but it's not necessarily bad for you. Don Gorske - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This guy eats 8.5 Big Macs a day, for years now, and has no health problems. I doubt that eating burgers like that is a "good" idea, but it doesn't seem to be linked to obesity. It's the idea that fat doesn't make you fat; dietary fat and cholesterol has no connection to obesity or blood cholesterol. The problem with the average American is eating sugary foods, drinking sugary drinks, and then not exercising; fast foods are not at fault.

  9. #39
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    My measure of inflation is what I spend at the Grocery Store. It used to cost $35 (2009) for what costs $50 (2013) today. That's inflation.
    IF you're measuring the same items in the same proportions. And when I say same items I mean same quality and same size.

    And then, of course, even the food at home index isn't based on what you buy. And where you live might also be above the national average.

    There were 10 burritos in a package now there are only 8. 8 ounces of potato chips was $.99 and now 10 ounces is $1.49. 2 chocolate cupcakes went from $.49 to $.69. All snack products went up at lest 33%.
    And the CPI considers all those price increases.
    The CPI is a joke. The real world doesn't live in the now of false statistics that are manipulated to make sure the gov't doesn't have to increase Social Security.
    If they're false, why do they need to be manipulated?

    That you don't understand the theory or the math doesn't make them invalid.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  10. #40
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Perhaps if you put more effort in understanding the topics you wish to discuss, you wouldn't have to defend nonsense positions against experts in these particular fields.
    I understand your position. However, I don't trust experts in fields who try to baffle me with B/S. For example, the other gentleman I finally decided to ignore spent quite a few of his earliest posts in another thread trying to convince me that Hidden Unemployment had no validity when discussing job growth figures. That the millions of persons the government lists as marginally attached and discouraged workers should not count in unemployment figures because they have given up seeking work. That the only valid numbers should be limited to those actively seeking work.

    I've worked for nearly three years in my State's department of unemployment and I know better. I also know that even using the limited numbers accepted by you "economists and statisticians" there are still four people seeking work for every job opening currently available in the USA, small wonder the government does not want to worry about those who once actively sought work but kept getting rejected for job openings.

    Empirical evidence also shows me that your touted economic indicators don't seem to affect the workers much, that you "economists and statisticians" keep propping up the idea that our system is working when we have nearly 50 million people on food stamps only 4.3 million of whom are on welfare. So forgive me if I don't have a lot of faith in your economic theories and statistical methods of support for them.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 07-26-13 at 12:47 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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