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Thread: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

  1. #91
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    And when their desires cause health care costs for the rest of us to balloon, its just the free market at work!
    That is why the government shouldn't be in the business of healthcare. They run up costs, reduce services, and increase delays.

    To paraphrase Milton Friedman... "you create a communist system of healthcare delivery and you get a communist result." If you want the exact quote read his interview at Hillsdale College... documented in their publication Imprimis.
    Last edited by zimmer; 07-29-13 at 04:52 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    A most aggressive tone given you couldn't even manage simple math. When you are proven to be wrong, you shift gears into full denial mode. Nobody forced you to respond to my comment pertaining to real disposable income.
    Aggressive mode...funny. In any case I've provided all the math I needed to prove your position is just smoke and mirrors. The CPI is a skewed statistic used by the government and economists who support the government (and thus corporate interests) to maintain faith in the current economic system. You pick and chose whatever you think will reflect best on a bad situation.

    I've shown that your "disposable income increase" is a farce. It does not matter if wages have increased when prices have increased even faster. It does not matter if the price of a television or computer seems cheaper than when it was first introduced if the prices of rents, gas, basic foods, and other necessities are more expensive and use up most workers wages. It does not matter if your voodoo economics show a land of plenty when that plenty is purchased through consumer use of deficit spending.

    Like I've said, statistics can be twisted into any usage people like yourself think most beneficial to your political economic position. Reality, and the actual experiences of consumers can't be twisted.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 07-29-13 at 05:12 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  3. #93
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    I largely agree with the idea that there are hidden inflations in the products we purchase. There are a number of ways that government statisticians hide this fact. For example, food and energy costs are excluded from inflation calculations because the prices for these are "too volatile" (nevermind that the volatility is mostly to the upside).

    With regard to the sort of thing Captain Adverse is claiming, government statisticians regularly make use of a "value added" factor in their calculations to reduce some of the price increase of consumer goods. For example, it used to be the case that dishwashers would be controlled by a dial. When buttons became popular, the price increases in dishwashers were factored out for a few years (even though the increases probably had nothing to do with the design changes) because customers were receiving more for their money (supposedly) in that they could now press buttons rather than turn knobs. Back when I worked in the grocery industry, it was a fairly regular occurrence that a manufacturer would charge the same amount of money for a slightly smaller package, and do this over a couple of years. Ten-ounce containers of yogurt became eight and then six, for the same price. 16 ounces of potato chips became 15, then 14, then 12, for the same money. But these sorts of changes, which were quite common and almost always to the downside, didn't have an effect on the CPI, when clearly they should have. The statisticians who contacted my company for pricing info did not collect data on size changes. They just wanted price changes.

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by ashurbanipal View Post
    ....these sorts of changes, which were quite common and almost always to the downside, didn't have an effect on the CPI, when clearly they should have. The statisticians who contacted my company for pricing info did not collect data on size changes. They just wanted price changes.
    The BLS does, in fact, check serving / package sizes on goods.

    Each month, BLS data collectors called economic assistants visit or call thousands of retail stores, service establishments, rental units, and doctors' offices, all over the United States, to obtain information on the prices of the thousands of items used to track and measure price changes in the CPI. These economic assistants record the prices of about 80,000 items each month, representing a scientifically selected sample of the prices paid by consumers for goods and services purchased.

    During each call or visit, the economic assistant collects price data on a specific good or service that was precisely defined during an earlier visit. If the selected item is available, the economic assistant records its price. If the selected item is no longer available, or if there have been changes in the quality or quantity (for example, eggs sold in packages of ten when they previously were sold by the dozen) of the good or service since the last time prices were collected, the economic assistant selects a new item or records the quality change in the current item.

    The recorded information is sent to the national office of BLS, where commodity specialists who have detailed knowledge about the particular goods or services priced review the data. These specialists check the data for accuracy and consistency and make any necessary corrections or adjustments, which can range from an adjustment for a change in the size or quantity of a packaged item to more complex adjustments based upon statistical analysis of the value of an item's features or quality. Thus, commodity specialists strive to prevent changes in the quality of items from affecting the CPI's measurement of price change.

    Emphasis added.

    Consumer Price Index Frequently Asked Questions

    /end thread

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    I've shown that your "disposable income increase" is a farce. It does not matter if wages have increased when prices have increased even faster.
    You have shown you are not good at calculating percentage change between two values. Personal income has increased by more than 900% since 1975.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    A basic error in terminology. Disposable income is also known as income after taxes. Since you are struggling, we'll keep it simple; per capita income between 1933 and 2008, adjusted for inflation, has increased by 675%! So even though a plethora of goods and services are more expensive now (like a doctor, or gallon of gasoline), people are more wealthy than they have ever been.
    Naw, you can't selectively pick a period starting pre-WWII at 1933. The USA conquered the world in 1945. And became fabulously wealthy as a result for the next 2 1/2 decades.

  7. #97
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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    You have shown you are not good at calculating percentage change between two values. Personal income has increased by more than 900% since 1975.
    Really? Well, according to the attached chart created from figures taken from U.S. Census; the average household income in 1975 was $10,316.00, adjusted for inflation that was the equivalent of $44,851 in 2013 dollars...

    In 2011 the median household income adjusted for 2013 inflation was $50,054. That's only an inflation adjusted value difference of $5,203 between 1975 income and 2011 income.

    So much for YOUR figures of a 900% increase. Not much real value difference is there? duh! We're not all as stupid as you might think.

    Median Household Income History in the United States
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Really? Well, according to the attached chart created from figures taken from U.S. Census; the average household income in 1975 was $10,316.00, adjusted for inflation that was the equivalent of $44,851 in 2013 dollars...

    In 2011 the median household income adjusted for 2013 inflation was $50,054. That's only an inflation adjusted value difference of $5,203 between 1975 income and 2011 income.

    So much for YOUR figures of a 900% increase. Not much real value difference is there? duh! We're not all as stupid as you might think.

    Median Household Income History in the United States
    Please learn the difference between median household income and per capita income.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Please learn the difference between median household income and per capita income.
    Geez...I don't need to know the difference. If $10,316 1975 dollars was the inflation adjusted equivalent of $44,851 in current dollars...your figures don't show that your 900% personal increase is that much of a real increase at all.

    Stop with your smoke and mirrors.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 07-29-13 at 07:24 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: HIDDEN INFLATION - "Fewer Sheets Needed to Get the job Done"

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Geez...I don't need to know the difference. If $10,316 1975 dollars was the inflation adjusted equivalent of $44,851 in current dollars...your figures don't show that your 900% personal increase is that much of a real increase at all.
    You are just confused. The 900% figure is in nominal terms (not factored for inflation) as were your rent and gasoline data points.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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