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Thread: Feds Raid Pot Dispensaries in Washington, Where the Drug is Legal

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    Re: Feds Raid Pot Dispensaries in Washington, Where the Drug is Legal

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    So you don't believe that human beings should have a basic inalienable right to medicine?
    Marijuana is not a medicine. At best, it's a pain remedy. Medicine requires a large set criteria: dosage, timing, among others. None of which really exist for marijuana. Please, don't try to make this conversation on the basis of "medicinal" marijuana. It doesn't exist. Marijuana as a pain reliever? Sure. However, there are quite a few things which do that without being considered medicine. A massage is not medicine. Ice on a sore knee is not medicine.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 07-26-13 at 06:06 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Feds Raid Pot Dispensaries in Washington, Where the Drug is Legal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Marijuana is not a medicine. At best, it's a pain remedy. Medicine requires a large set criteria: dosage, timing, among others. None of which really exist for marijuana. Please, don't try to make this conversation on the basis of "medicinal" marijuana. It doesn't exist. Marijuana as a pain reliever? Sure. However, there are quite a few things which do that without being considered medicine. A massage is not medicine. Ice on a sore knee is not medicine.
    I think it's hilarious that you claim that there is not such thing as medicinal marijuana while ignoring the fact that it's technically illegal to do research into it's medicinal uses. Despite the technically illegal nature of the research there is still evidence that marijuana has health benefits.

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    Re: Feds Raid Pot Dispensaries in Washington, Where the Drug is Legal

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    I think it's hilarious that you claim that there is not such thing as medicinal marijuana while ignoring the fact that it's technically illegal to do research into it's medicinal uses
    Why are you making up things which are easily debunked? There are literally HUNDREDS of books on the studies on marijuana. Both done abroad and the US. Seriously, this isn't something you can just bull**** your way around and not expect to be called on.

    Marijuana and Health Hazards: Methodological Issues in Issues in Current ... - Google Books

    Cannabis Use and Dependence: Public Health and Public Policy - Wayne Hall, Rosalie Liccardo Pacula - Google Books

    Cannabis and Cannabinoids: Pharmacology, Toxicology, and Therapeutic Potential - Ethan B Russo - Google Books

    Marijuana As Medicine?: The Science Beyond the Controversy - Alison Mack, Janet Joy - Google Books

    Those are 4 books with literally hundreds of citations for their claims. So where did they get their research from? Look, I know it's cool to try and bull**** people because you just started smoking weed last week. However, don't try and just make ridiculous claims up. Marijuana research has been going on for the better part of the last 50 years. Even as those PSAs on "Reefer Madness" were going on, there were entire departments dedicated to studying its effects. So no, it's not illegal to study marijuana; not even technically.

    As a matter of fact; some of the longest careers in pharmacological studies belong to guys who study marijuana. Most of them before I was even born:

    Marijuana and Pregnancy on MedicineNet.com

    Grinspoon has been studying the effects of marijuana for more than 30 years, beginning when his son used it to ease nausea caused by chemotherapy treatments. He says many studies regarding cannabis and childbirth fail to take into account socioeconomic factors, degree of prenatal care, or behaviors like smoking tobacco.
    So please, please tell me all about how it's "technically" illegal to study marijuana? Where? Not in the US. You sure about your claims, buddy?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 07-26-13 at 06:40 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Feds Raid Pot Dispensaries in Washington, Where the Drug is Legal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Why are you making up things which are easily debunked? There are literally HUNDREDS of books on the studies on marijuana. Both done abroad and the US. Seriously, this isn't something you can just bull**** your way around and not expect to be called on.

    Marijuana and Health Hazards: Methodological Issues in Issues in Current ... - Google Books

    Cannabis Use and Dependence: Public Health and Public Policy - Wayne Hall, Rosalie Liccardo Pacula - Google Books

    Cannabis and Cannabinoids: Pharmacology, Toxicology, and Therapeutic Potential - Ethan B Russo - Google Books

    Marijuana As Medicine?: The Science Beyond the Controversy - Alison Mack, Janet Joy - Google Books

    Those are 4 books with literally hundreds of citations for their claims. So where did they get their research from? Look, I know it's cool to try and bull**** people because you just started smoking weed last week. However, don't try and just make ridiculous claims up. Marijuana research has been going on for the better part of the last 50 years. Even as those PSAs on "Reefer Madness" were going on, there were entire departments dedicated to studying its effects. So no, it's not illegal to study marijuana; not even technically.
    So your argument is that because research gets done and gets done often means that it should be legal? Great because that's pretty much the same argument that people who just want to get high use. I'm glad to hear that you are now an advocate for full legalization of marijuana.
    per wikipedia...
    Constraints on open research

    Cannabis research is challenging since the plant is illegal in most countries. Research-grade samples of the drug are difficult to obtain for research purposes, unless granted under authority of national governments.
    So just because research was done doesn't mean it was done legally. And the research that does get done has huge government restrictions.

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    Re: Feds Raid Pot Dispensaries in Washington, Where the Drug is Legal

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    So your argument is that because research gets done and gets done often means that it should be legal?
    No, that is the strawman you made up to make your incredibly wrong claim on the illegality of marijuana research sound less ridiculous.

    So just because research was done doesn't mean it was done legally. And the research that does get done has huge government restrictions.
    Hahaha, what? So now you're downgrading it to "huge government restrictions". Well, I guess that's a step down from "technically illegal". Look buddy, here's the myth:

    "Marijuana research is technically illegal".

    Here is fact #1:

    Marijuana research is not technically illegal in the US.

    Welcome to CMCR

    Welcome to the University of California's Center for Medicinal Cannabis Research (CMCR). The purpose of the Center is to coordinate rigorous scientific studies to assess the safety and efficacy of cannabis and cannabis compounds for treating medical conditions. The funding of the CMCR is the result of SB 847 (Vasconcellos), passed by the State Legislature and signed into law by Governor Gray Davis. The legislation calls for a three year program overseeing objective, high quality medical research that will "enhance understanding of the efficacy and adverse effects of marijuana as a pharmacological agent," stressing that the project "should not be construed as encouraging or sanctioning the social or recreational use of marijuana" (SB 847).
    Read More
    That begs the question: Where is it illegal? Afghanistan? Fiji? Cayman Islands? Where are these pharmacological powerhouses where marijuana research is technically illegal? It's certainly not Europe or the US.

    Here is fact #2:

    Marijuana is the subject of a large amount of scientific research:

    https://www.google.ca/search?num=100...Iwgdb1BNi4gbgB

    Which also puts a dent in your "there isn't enough research" and "it's technically illegal" argument.

    Here is fact #3:

    Medicinal marijuana is largely a myth:

    http://www.maps.org/media/vaporizer_epub.pdf

    Although cannabis may have potential therapeutic value, inhalation of a combustion product is an undesirable delivery
    system. The aim of the study was to investigate vaporization using the Volcano device as an alternative means of delivery of inhaled Cannabis sativa.
    ------------

    Now, if you want to sit around here and pretend you have a case for why marijuana should be used as a pain reliever? Sure. Go for it. But it doesn't fit the criteria of a medicine to begin with. It's not a medicine but that's not because it's not made available to the small island nation of Fiji for studying. It's not a medicine but that's not because there isn't research on it; that's proven blatantly false. It's simply doesn't fit the description of a medicine even by layman standards.

    As a matter of fact; marijuana if anything has been discredited for being crude and ineffective in its most basic form of consumption. Even if it were to be legalized, it has already been shown many a time that simply smoking it won't bring you the cancer curing miracle you're hoping for.

    This is something I've done a lot of research on. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty well known in this forum for my support of legalizing it. However, basing your argument for legalization on it being a medicine is simply bunk science. It's a pain reliever. That's more than enough to make it legal.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 07-26-13 at 07:19 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Feds Raid Pot Dispensaries in Washington, Where the Drug is Legal

    But NONE of that matters here. It IS medicine because the state classes it as medicine and allows medicinal use with a prescription. This is just another example of federal overreach and none of the problems, real or imaged, that the feds say they need to take the power away from the state in order to solve are being solved, or even made better by the federal power grab.

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    Re: Feds Raid Pot Dispensaries in Washington, Where the Drug is Legal

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Here's the deal. You know when I said nothing would convince me? Well, something convinced me. OMFG. I agree with YOU. That was absurd. I really had no idea.

    Before I go on, see the quote I picked up here from the NCI shown as Spoiler? Why doesn't it show up in your original post? That's just plain weird. Did you edit it or something?

    Anyway, thanks to your frownie face, I Googled and found the exact same thing. We probably Googled the same.

    I am wrong. (I'm glad I'm wrong. Really glad.) Isn't the NCI "the government"? What? Are they nuckin' futz? Or just related to me?

    Thank you, Human Being. I've learned something extremely important tonight.
    I wish I could like your post ten or a hundred times.

    You are an awesome DP poster. Thanks you for restoring my hope in humanity.

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    Re: Feds Raid Pot Dispensaries in Washington, Where the Drug is Legal

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I wish I could like your post ten or a hundred times.

    You are an awesome DP poster. Thanks you for restoring my hope in humanity.
    That is so sweet, Federalist!! Thank you!
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Feds Raid Pot Dispensaries in Washington, Where the Drug is Legal

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    That is so sweet, Federalist!! Thank you!
    Not sweet. Truthful.

    I think you are the ONLY person in a political forum that I've EVER seen admit they were wrong. It takes a certain kind of character to have the stones to do that, when you know everyone is going to slam you for "backpedaling" or whatever.

    Oh, and kudos to HumanBeing for being gracious and civilized in response.

    I was disgusted about personal stuff tonight, and you guys really brought a smile to my face.

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    Re: Feds Raid Pot Dispensaries in Washington, Where the Drug is Legal

    As I left Colorado today, the Denver Post had a state map showing which Counties were yes, which were no and which can'tor figure it out. County rights. What's next?

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