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Thread: House Defeats Effort to Rein In N.S.A. Data Gathering

  1. #11
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    Re: House Defeats Effort to Rein In N.S.A. Data Gathering

    Mine voted for it.

    Maybe I'll vote for him in the next election after all, even though he is an incumbent. I haven't decided yet.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: House Defeats Effort to Rein In N.S.A. Data Gathering

    Couple of things. Do the politicians that vote against the N.S.A. become targeted now? And, it is damn shameful that the people elected into office cannot recognize something that needs to go. Who knows, maybe they're afraid to vote against the system, or think that they're unaffected by the process.

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    Re: House Defeats Effort to Rein In N.S.A. Data Gathering

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    I would have voted no, but I would consider future bills with some concrete parameters on how long data can be saved and no eavesdropping without a warrant.
    For ev er. Why do you think they are building a huge data center in Utah? The train started. Even if congress votes on ending it, it won't end. Just imagine the plethora of programs the gov't acronyms have that we don't know about? The fact you think collecting data on US citizens is OK frightens me. "Give them an inch, and they take a mile" goes hand in hand with gov't agencies and skirting around rules/regulations.

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    Re: House Defeats Effort to Rein In N.S.A. Data Gathering

    Quote Originally Posted by JRSaindo View Post
    For ev er. Why do you think they are building a huge data center in Utah? The train started. Even if congress votes on ending it, it won't end. Just imagine the plethora of programs the gov't acronyms have that we don't know about? The fact you think collecting data on US citizens is OK frightens me. "Give them an inch, and they take a mile" goes hand in hand with gov't agencies and skirting around rules/regulations.

    Google and facebook probably know far more about people than the government does.

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    Re: House Defeats Effort to Rein In N.S.A. Data Gathering

    They keep data for 5 years unless its evidence, then they keep it indefinitely. But with this new data center that should be finished this year, and lack of actions from Congress, who knows.

    They get their data from anything digital. They can intercept anything from anyone they want. Google searches, personal emails, purchases, etc. etc. Sure, things can be encrypted, but I'm sure they have some smart programmers that can get around most of it, or they get the encryption keys outright. It first started as a foreign data collection program, but now its all out invasion of privacy on all US citizens within 4 or 5 "hops" from a suspect they are tracking. A hop being someone who knows the suspect or previous hop.

    This explains a lot of it in detail: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...tacenter/all/1
    Last edited by JRSaindo; 07-25-13 at 03:35 AM.

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    Re: House Defeats Effort to Rein In N.S.A. Data Gathering

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Google and facebook probably know far more about people than the government does.
    The problem with the Utah center isn't about what's out there, it's about access, retention and analysis. There's no way the government should have its hands on that much data without so much as a vague residue of probable cause.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: House Defeats Effort to Rein In N.S.A. Data Gathering

    My congressman,Jim Sensenbrenner gave a pretty good speech in favor of the Amash amendment. I thought if someone like him,who is in no way a libertarian or "wacko bird" supported it,it would pass. Thought it was interesting that both Pelosi and Bachmann voted against,while Trey Gowdy and Conyers voted for it. Strange bedfellows.

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    Re: House Defeats Effort to Rein In N.S.A. Data Gathering

    I'm thankful my rep voted for it. Not surprised that establishment thugs like Pelosi and Bachmann voted against it.


    "In reality, the fate of the amendment was sealed when the Obama White House on Monday night announced its vehement opposition to it, and then sent NSA officials to the House to scare members that barring the NSA from collecting all phone records of all Americans would Help The Terrorists™.

    Using Orwellian language so extreme as to be darkly hilarious, this was the first line of the White House's statement opposing the amendment: "In light of the recent unauthorized disclosures, the President has said that he welcomes a debate about how best to simultaneously safeguard both our national security and the privacy of our citizens" (i.e.: we welcome the debate that has been exclusively enabled by that vile traitor, the same debate we've spent years trying to prevent with rampant abuse of our secrecy powers that has kept even the most basic facts about our spying activities concealed from the American people).

    The White House then condemned Amash/Conyers this way: "This blunt approach is not the product of an informed, open, or deliberative process." What a multi-level masterpiece of Orwellian political deceit that sentence is. The highly surgical Amash/Conyers amendment - which would eliminate a single, specific NSA program of indiscriminate domestic spying - is a "blunt approach", but the Obama NSA's bulk, indiscriminate collection of all Americans' telephone records is not a "blunt approach". Even worse: Amash/Conyers - a House bill debated in public and then voted on in public - is not an "open or deliberative process", as opposed to the Obama administration's secret spying activities and the secret court that blesses its secret interpretations of law, which is "open and deliberative". That anyone can write a statement like the one that came from the Obama White House without dying of shame, or giggles, is impressive."

    http://http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/25/democratic-establishment-nsa

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    Re: House Defeats Effort to Rein In N.S.A. Data Gathering

    To bad we can't actually see the amendment. I find it puzzling that the votes went the way they did.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: House Defeats Effort to Rein In N.S.A. Data Gathering

    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    I'm thankful my rep voted for it. Not surprised that establishment thugs like Pelosi and Bachmann voted against it.


    "In reality, the fate of the amendment was sealed when the Obama White House on Monday night announced its vehement opposition to it, and then sent NSA officials to the House to scare members that barring the NSA from collecting all phone records of all Americans would Help The Terrorists™.

    Using Orwellian language so extreme as to be darkly hilarious, this was the first line of the White House's statement opposing the amendment: "In light of the recent unauthorized disclosures, the President has said that he welcomes a debate about how best to simultaneously safeguard both our national security and the privacy of our citizens" (i.e.: we welcome the debate that has been exclusively enabled by that vile traitor, the same debate we've spent years trying to prevent with rampant abuse of our secrecy powers that has kept even the most basic facts about our spying activities concealed from the American people).

    The White House then condemned Amash/Conyers this way: "This blunt approach is not the product of an informed, open, or deliberative process." What a multi-level masterpiece of Orwellian political deceit that sentence is. The highly surgical Amash/Conyers amendment - which would eliminate a single, specific NSA program of indiscriminate domestic spying - is a "blunt approach", but the Obama NSA's bulk, indiscriminate collection of all Americans' telephone records is not a "blunt approach". Even worse: Amash/Conyers - a House bill debated in public and then voted on in public - is not an "open or deliberative process", as opposed to the Obama administration's secret spying activities and the secret court that blesses its secret interpretations of law, which is "open and deliberative". That anyone can write a statement like the one that came from the Obama White House without dying of shame, or giggles, is impressive."

    http://http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/25/democratic-establishment-nsa
    The White House is betting that Americans are still willing to trade liberty for the illusion of security. So far, their betting track record has been pretty good.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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